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The Minimum Wage Is Stuck at $7.25; It Should Be $21.16 — or Higher

America’s minimum wage was raised to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009.  It’s still there.  Unlike almost all other federal benchmarks, the minimum wage is not updated for inflation.

The minimum wage reached its (inflation-adjusted) historic high in 1968, when it was raised from $1.40 to $1.60 per hour.  Adjusted for inflation using the BLS online inflation calculator that would come to $10.55 per hour in 2012 dollars.

That $10.55 figure is the focus of a nationwide campaign organized by the National Employment Law Project (NELP).  In today’s political climate it would certainly be a major accomplishment to achieve a $10.55 minimum wage.  But $10.55 is still far too low.

Using 1968 as our benchmark for the minimum wage implies that low-wage Americans today should be making just as much as low-wage Americans were making 44 years ago.  That benchmark is — frankly — ridiculous.

Can you imagine Americans of 1968 settling for a minimum wage standard of living that had been set based on 1924 standards?  What about 1880 standards?  At some point we should expect low-wage workers to start living better than they used to.  Don’t low-wage Americans deserve to live in the 21st century, not the mid-20th?

Can you imagine Americans of 1968 settling for a minimum wage standard of living that had been set based on 1924 standards?  What about 1880 standards?  At some point we should expect low-wage workers to start living better than they used to.

A better way to update the minimum wage is to benchmark it to personal income growth in the economy as a whole.

Per capita real personal income excluding current transfer receipts — that is, the personal income earned in the economy, excluding Social Security and other government programs, adjusted for inflation — has grown by 100.6% since 1968.

In other words, the NELP has it too low — by half.  If our standard for minimum wages had kept pace with overall income growth in the American economy, it would now be $21.16 per hour.

Yes, had the US income distribution and US standards of decency remained exactly what it was in 1968, the minimum wage would now be $21.16 per hour.

I grew up on the idea that America stood for progress, continual progress toward a better society.  Even a $21.16 minimum wage wouldn’t represent progress.  It would mean socially standing still, just with better technology and higher productivity levels.  Progress would mean a minimum wage in excess of $21.16 per hour.

Of course, a minimum wage in the mid-20s is politically inconceivable.  But it is technically, economically, and socially realistic.  The only reason we can’t have it is the greed of those at the top and the intransigence of those at the near-top.  The only reason we can’t have it is that we don’t want it.

We are not the Americans of 1968.

  • Jimjayhawk

    Sounds great in theory… but is completely irrational and unrealistic. I’ve got 60 hrs post-master’s and 30 yrs in higher education and I don’t make much more than $21 an hour. Minimum wage should be a living wage, but it should also be a wage to motivate people to gain the education and training to be able to contribute more AND earn more. 

    • Eric Merrow

      I totally agree myself.  If the minimum wage were to increase like that, how then will it affect the professionals who have sought higher education and personal betterment. It would then have to increase professionals’ incomes to match that rate of increase proportionally otherwise the ones who earnestly worked for and earned their pay would be unfairly matched and then what incentive is there to reach for higher goals…if the guy who didn’t seek education was allowed to match your income when you worked, payed, and sacrificed time to get where you are now.  This would then mirror ideals of a socialist economy which we know is flawed. Also how would this increase in American minimum wage and possibly professional wages affect trade and global economy?  This is way to unrealistic. 

      • Dan Bolden

        A basic understanding of economics would let you know that a rising tide lifts all boats.  If janitors make $21.16/hr, then you would make more.  It’s surprising that you wouldn’t want that.

        And the idea that the lower-income, less-educated workers HAVEN’T “earnestly worked for and earned their pay” is elitist, ignorant, and quite possibly racist.

        But, as you don’t seem able to comprehend the difference between “to” and “too”, that might be a little over your head.  [/elitism, directed at you]

        PS-“Payed”?  “Payed?”  Having a little trouble finishing fourth grayed, are we?  You uneducated dolt.

        • http://www.facebook.com/defenestrationofdoug Doug Henning

          $21.16 sounds nice unless a loaf of bread costs $15. You have to peg it to a living wage. Race doesn’t come into it. Prices do.

          • ANONYMOUS

            YOU’RE THE KIND OF STUPID PERSON THAT RICH PEOPLE LOVE BECAUSE YOU HELP THE RICH BECOME RICHER AND PREVENT THE AVERAGE PERSON FROM HAVING A NORMAL DESCENT LIFE

          • Alden

            The rich can only be so far ahead by keeping everyone else down, and thus, is exactly what they have been doing: they exploit everybody they can in the name of pure greed.

        • ANONYMOUS

          EXACTLY, WHICH IS WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING FOR DECADES !!!

        • Dan

          Grayed? Now that’ s just damn funny. I’m reminded of a story about stones and glass houses!

          • Joe X

            And I am reminded of the son who tells his father how smart he is. The father, seeing the sons fourth grayed hair replies, “Yes, I see you have developed some gray matter”.

        • Brian

          Basic Economics tells us that minimum wage should not exist at all. Imagine an employer could hire 2 employees for $15 an hour. At a minimum wage of $7.50 each. Suppose minimum wage doubles to $15. Companies operate at a point where marginal cost equals marginal benefit. The employer may now A. Reduce labor by 1 worker. B. Raise his prices to compensate C. Take less pay home

          A. Is the most logical choice.

          B. Now, he will sell less of his product so no net gain exists. Also everyone’s dollar is now worth less at his store.

          C. The effects of income redistribution are realized and the society has become less free due to Socialist policy.

          Economics is about what is not seen. Minimum wage increases will raise the wages of some but reduce that of others and result in unemployment.

          “The sweeter the first fruits of harvest, the more bitter the latter” – Bastiat

        • Brian

          I am an economist. Your argument is normative. No theory exists which supports this argument. In fact, everything we know says the exact opposite. A rising tide lifts all boats including prices. Simply changing a number attached to minimum wage will have 0 effect positive or negative in the long run except reduce the value of the dollar. The market will correct and adjust back to equilibrium. Basic Economics.

          Please, everyone do not listen to this man…. If you love your country and puppies.

          • pappy

            I think wages lag behind inflation. And in some cases as in this one way behind. Unions strike or people demand higher wages (but hardly ever get them) when the cost of living goes up and they haven’t had a raise in many years. Its not the other way around in my experience. Real wages have actually receded in the past few years because of high unemployment and continue to recede despite a small decrease in unemployment., but prices are still going up. I see my grocery bill rise almost every week. When wealth becomes so imbalanced as it is in this country it actually lowers the amount of money in circulation as the rich hoard their great wealth in off shore banks and tax shelters. And as the rest of the people who normally do most of the spending have less and less to spend. Yet prices still rise. We are now about 20 years behind a massive correction in wages. Because all of the correction mechanisms like collective bargaining , minimum wage etc. have been beaten down by right wing politicians for the past 30 years. (Since Ray Gun started the movement in the 80’s). Obama is right. Unless we correct for this decrease in the credit free buying power of the middle class in this consumer economy our sluggish economy will go back into recession. We can’t borrow our way out of it like we tried before the crash. The export economy is doing better now as we are manufacturing more and exporting to other countries. Proof that we can compete with China because an American worker is 4X more productive than a Chinese worker and makes a much better product which fetches a better price. But because of greed, the wages are still so low that despite the recent small decrease in unemployment people still don’t have the disposable income they had back in the 50’s and 60’s and 70’s. They’re just getting by on not much more than they got on unemployment . Before it ran out. If we would just raise our standards to 21st century levels and pay people a living wage, it would also reduce unemployment because fewer people would have to work 2 or 3 jobs nor have to work so long before they retire. We would lower the supply of labor. Reduce unemployment, and raise living standards along with increased spending and a growing domestic economy. We can do better. But instead in this richest country on earth we decided to do the exact opposite . Why? To give the greedy more wealth than they can ever use? CEO’s don’t have to and shouldn’t make 400X what the average worker makes. It just makes them more lazy and less productive when they are already richer than they ever imagined possible. Give them less and they will have to work harder and longer hours to satisfy their greed. Just like many middle class workers have been working 2 or 3 jobs just to improve their living standards. They don’t like living in poverty and on welfare like the moronic republicans have been inferring . Time to turn things back around. Abolish slavery again.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Rising tides Lift boats. But if you see a floating PRICE at high tide, please go get it, so I can see it.
            If the Tide RISES, less boats HIT BOTTOM.
            The DOLLAR constantly loses value 3% yearly because it is manmade-artificial.
            TRY TO PUT YOUR DOG on a wage. How many DOLLARS will be enough to satisfy his welfare, By the Dogs reckoning? If you don’t want to prostitute and enslave the DOG, how about the nearest squirrel, since he is not man’s best friend, and you barely care about that squirrel, and won’t have to look that squirrell in the eye everday when you get home.
            Most dictionaries point out that DOLLAR comes from JOACHIMS-THALLER or the valley of Joachim
            But none point out the similarities to the word
            DOLOR, (Latin) To suffer. Noun PAIN, ANGUISH SORROW, DISTRESS, GRIEF.
            This is what acountants count. DOLOR in the HOUSE.
            ECONOMY: (GREEK) Householder

      • ANONYMOUS

        YOU’RE AN IDIOT, LACKING IN COMMON SENSE, MEANING THAT BEING ABLE TO MEMORIZE OR MAKE COMPUTATIONS IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT MARK INTELLIGENCE THAT HAVING AND USING COMMON SENSE IS REAL & ACTUAL DEFINITION OF BEING SMART: OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SEEM TO BE: THE KIND OF IDIOTS THAT INFEST OUR GOVERNMENT AND IN EACH AND EVERY GOVERNMENT & THE POLICE & ALSO COURTS & LAWYERS & DOCTORS & ALSO POLITICIANS & TEACHERS, NONE OF WHOM HAVE ANY REAL COMMON SENSE: MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO BE PROPORTIONAL TO INFLATION. EVEN BETTER WOULD BE TO FORCE SAME INCOME TO ALL JOBS AT ALL LEVELS WITH ONE EXCEPTION THAT RAISE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO GO WITH & TO FAMILY/IES WITH PROPORTIONAL INCREASE IN NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT MORE CHILDREN MEANS MORE SALARY ! INCLUDING TO RID OF ALL TAXES, EXCEPT FOR SALES TAX IS THE ONLY MORAL AND LEGAL TAX: PROPERTY TAX IS NOT LEGAL NOR IS ANY OTHER TYPE OF TAX OR FEE INCLUDING FORCE TO PAY TO PARK ONE’S CAR IS ALSO NOT LEGAL NOR IS DOZENS OF LAWS TO MAKE RICH RICHER: THE ENTIRE MEANING ALMOST ENTIRE LEGAL SYSTEM IS NOT LEGAL MEANS CORRUPTS IN THE WORST WAY IS WHY ONLY ONE TAX IS LEGAL THAT IS SALES TAX INCLUDING NO CHARGING CRAZY % ON CREDIT CARD ELSE TO IF BANKS WANT TO CHARGE % ON CREDIT CARD, THEN THEY [BANKS] CAN NOT GET GOVERNMENT TO FORCE YOU TO PAY FOR COLLEGE TO GET THE WORTHLESS DEGREE TO GET A JOB: IS SIMPLY PAYING BRIBE TO GET A PERMIT TO WORK, SORT OF LIKE TAXI DRIVER DO IN NEW YORK CITY PAY LICENSE TO WORK IS EXTORTION RACKET ! MEANING OUR GOVERNMENT & ALL GOVERNMENTS R SIMPLY MAFIA[S] & THE POLICE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN THUGS IN UNIFORM: IS TRUTH !!! INCLUDING MAKE DIESEL ENGINE LEGAL AND THE ONLY OPTION WHILE MAKING THE PETROL ENGINE NOT LEGAL WOULD HELP GREATLY TO REDUCE EVIL & CORRUPTION IN OUR INCOMPETENT GOVERNMENT SYSTEM IS INFESTED WITH IDIOTS ! INCLUDING ALMOST ALL POLICE & COPS ARE IDIOTS WITH LITTLE OR NO COMMON SENSE & SAME POLICE PROBLEM IN EACH AND EVERY COUNTRY WHERE STRONG PREY UPON THE WEAK[ER] IS NOT GOOD & USING FAKE LEGAL CODE TO JUSTIFY CRIMINAL ACTIONS & ACTIVITIES LIKE BANKS FORECLOSING ON HOUSES IS NOT LEGAL AND ANY COP[S] OR/AND POLICE THAT ALLOW IT ARE CRIMINALS & SIMPLY THUGS IN UNIFORM WORKING FOR MAFIA[S], LIKE IN ONE OF THE ORIGINAL STAR TREK EPISODE WHERE USA IS CONTROLLED BY A DOZEN MAFIAS: REFERRING TO THE ILLUMINATI

        • davidotazu

          Yup, you’ve gone cuckoo.

        • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

          No, SMART does not mean common sense.
          SMART means to be hurt. I agree it hurts to see everybody so angry over DOLORS.
          INNOCENT, from Latin nocere, means to not know.
          Believe me, I am SMART enough to earn as many DOLORS as anyone, yet INNOCENT enough not to do so.
          DON”T DO ANYTHING FOR A PIECE OF PAPER YOU WOULD NOT DO FREE!! DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WISH TO BE DONE!

    • Dan Bolden

      The fact that you make so little does not mean that the less-educated, less-“deserving” should make less.  It means that you are getting screwed.

      If the minimum wage was a decent wage, then you could leverage your oh-so-precious “higher education” and earn more.  Instead you complain that if the poor are not kept at near-starvation, your precious mediocrity will be threatened.

      Sounds as if you didn’t learn that much in school, after all.

    • ANONYMOUS

      YOU’RE AN IDIOT, THE KIND OF IDIOTS THAT INFEST OUR GOVERNMENT AND IN EACH AND EVERY GOVERNMENT & THE POLICE & ALSO COURTS & LAWYERS & DOCTORS & TEACHERS, NONE OF WHOM HAVE ANY REAL COMMON SENSE: MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO BE PROPORTIONAL TO INFLATION. EVEN BETTER WOULD BE TO FORCE SAME INCOME TO ALL JOBS AT ALL LEVELS WITH ONE EXCEPTION THAT RAISE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO GO WITH FAMILY WITH PROPORTIONAL INCREASE IN NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT MORE CHILDREN MEANS MORE SALARY ! INCLUDING TO RID OF ALL TAXES, EXCEPT FOR SALES TAX IS THE ONLY MORAL AND LEGAL TAX: PROPERTY TAX IS NOT LEGAL NOR IS ANY OTHER TYPE OF TAX OR FEE INCLUDING FORCE TO PAY TO PARK ONE’S CAR IS ALSO NOT LEGAL NOR IS DOZENS OF LAWS TO MAKE RICH RICHER: THE ENTIRE MEANING ALMOST ENTIRE LEGAL SYSTEM IS NOT LEGAL MEANS CORRUPTS IN THE WORST WAY IS WHY ONLY ONE TAX IS LEGAL THAT IS SALES TAX INCLUDING NO CHARGING CRAZY % ON CREDIT CARD ELSE TO IF BANKS WANT TO CHARGE % ON CREDIT CARD, THEN THEY CAN NOT GET GOVERNMENT TO FORGET YOU TO PAY FOR COLLEGE TO GET THE WORTHLESS DEGREE TO GET A JOB: IS SIMPLY PAYING BRIBE TO GET A PERMIT TO WORK, SORT OF LIKE TAXI DRIVER DO IN NEW YORK CITY PAY LICENSE TO WORK IS EXTORTION RACKET ! MEANING OUR GOVERNMENT & ALL GOVERNMENTS R SIMPLY MAFIA[S] & THE POLICE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN THUGS IN UNIFORM: IS TRUTH !!!

      • ANONYMOUS

        YOU’RE AN IDIOT, THE KIND OF IDIOTS THAT INFEST OUR GOVERNMENT AND IN EACH AND EVERY GOVERNMENT & THE POLICE & ALSO COURTS & LAWYERS & DOCTORS & TEACHERS, NONE OF WHOM HAVE ANY REAL COMMON SENSE: MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO BE PROPORTIONAL TO INFLATION. EVEN BETTER WOULD BE TO FORCE SAME INCOME TO ALL JOBS AT ALL LEVELS WITH ONE EXCEPTION THAT RAISE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE OUGHT TO GO WITH FAMILY WITH PROPORTIONAL INCREASE IN NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT MORE CHILDREN MEANS MORE SALARY ! INCLUDING TO RID OF ALL TAXES, EXCEPT FOR SALES TAX IS THE ONLY MORAL AND LEGAL TAX: PROPERTY TAX IS NOT LEGAL NOR IS ANY OTHER TYPE OF TAX OR FEE INCLUDING FORCE TO PAY TO PARK ONE’S CAR IS ALSO NOT LEGAL NOR IS DOZENS OF LAWS TO MAKE RICH RICHER: THE ENTIRE MEANING ALMOST ENTIRE LEGAL SYSTEM IS NOT LEGAL MEANS CORRUPTS IN THE WORST WAY IS WHY ONLY ONE TAX IS LEGAL THAT IS SALES TAX INCLUDING NO CHARGING CRAZY % ON CREDIT CARD ELSE TO IF BANKS WANT TO CHARGE % ON CREDIT CARD, THEN THEY [BANKS] CAN NOT GET GOVERNMENT TO FORCE YOU TO PAY FOR COLLEGE TO GET THE WORTHLESS DEGREE TO GET A JOB: IS SIMPLY PAYING BRIBE TO GET A PERMIT TO WORK, SORT OF LIKE TAXI DRIVER DO IN NEW YORK CITY PAY LICENSE TO WORK IS EXTORTION RACKET ! MEANING OUR GOVERNMENT & ALL GOVERNMENTS R SIMPLY MAFIA[S] & THE POLICE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN THUGS IN UNIFORM: IS TRUTH !!! INCLUDING MAKE DIESEL ENGINE LEGAL AND THE ONLY OPTION WHILE MAKING THE PETROL ENGINE NOT LEGAL WOULD HELP GREATLY TO REDUCE EVIL & CORRUPTION IN OUR INCOMPETENT GOVERNMENT SYSTEM IS INFESTED WITH IDIOTS ! INCLUDING ALMOST ALL POLICE & COPS ARE IDIOTS WITH LITTLE OR NO COMMON SENSE & SAME POLICE PROBLEM IN EACH AND EVERY COUNTRY WHERE STRONG PREY UPON THE WEAK[ER] IS NOT GOOD & USING FAKE LEGAL CODE TO JUSTIFY CRIMINAL ACTIONS & ACTIVITIES LIKE BANKS FORECLOSING ON HOUSES IS NOT LEGAL AND ANY COP[S] OR/AND POLICE THAT ALLOW IT ARE CRIMINALS & SIMPLY THUGS IN UNIFORM WORKING FOR MAFIA[S], LIKE IN ONE OF THE ORIGINAL STAR TREK EPISODE WHERE USA IS CONTROLLED BY A DOZEN MAFIAS: REFERRING TO THE ILLUMINATI

    • http://www.facebook.com/remccainjr Edward McCain

      Using your logic, we should *reduce* minimum wage, so people will have even *more* motivation to ” gain the education and training to be able to contribute more AND earn more.”

      I’m not sure *how* the people will be able to afford such training and education, but why worry about such trifles?

      • http://www.facebook.com/rottensquash Channing Shattuck

        And using your implied logic, why not *increase* minimum wage to $100/hr? Why not $1000/hr? More money, more goes back into the economy right? Incentives be damned. Let’s make everyone rich!

        • http://www.facebook.com/kasey.endsley Kasey Endsley

          You sir are an idiot.

          • Andrew

            No your an idiot, its called satire….ZzZz

          • fag

            you’re

        • Alden

          You would do much better in life if you learned some critical and abstract thinking skills.

        • Step

          The problem is people that take it to extremes on either view. Perhaps in the future with the value of a dollar going down eventually it will make its way where a $100/hr minimum wage is necessary. The point isn’t to make everyone rich. The point is to ensure more people are able to stand on their own two feet and then work their way up from there. More people earning wages that results in them being above poverty means less need for government assistance programs. Which further results in less need for tax revenue. Which further results in tax rates going down. Taxing the rich more pretty much compensates not taxing the poor and giving tax credits and government assistants to those that are poor.

          • David Roberson

            There is no real poverty in America. We have comparative poverty, but your average millionaire is in comparative poverty when you compare them to Bill Gates. Real poverty doesn’t exist in America.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            I am constantly worried about those POOR rich people, and every OXYMORON that supports them. Someone Please raise the maximum wage because rich people are starving in America, and may die if they don’t get more DOLLARS so they can keep up with Bill Gates.

            I remember when I made the MAXIMUM WAGE, But I traded it all for a FAIR wage that everybody could share.
            It was the day I realized GUILT means to sin
            and it is more the same as gild: covered in gold.

          • David Roberson

            The point was that there is no one in poverty in this country. You might try looking up the definition of poverty. Good job responding to something that was never said.

        • David Roberson

          They did that on Idiocracy didn’t they? lol.

    • Wgoro

      This just means you too are underpaid. Minimum wage covers lowest standard of living. If wages overall had kept up with productivity, you, me and everyone who works for a living should be getting paid much, much more.

      • David Roberson

        Technology has made it so that you have more for less. Minimum wage workers today are much better off than the ones in the 60s. How many minimum wage workers had AC, TVs, phones, cars, and computers? The answer – NONE.

        • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

          But our 60’s electronics didn’t have a monthly fee. We paid for them once + electricity

          • David Roberson

            You saved up for a year to buy a TV in those days that was smaller than your $70 TV at Walmart. TVs still require absolutely no monthly fee and you get 10x’s the amount of channels that you got in the 60s. What did they have? 3 channels? We have 30 free over the air channels in many areas.

            Air conditioners are no different than they were in the 60s.

            Phones have always had a monthly fee.

            Cars don’t have a monthly fee.

            How does it feel to make a stupid argument and get destroyed with verifiable facts?

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Car fees include gasoline, insurance, maintenance, repair, insurance. I’d call that a monthly fee plus.
            Of course you maybe get minimum wage workers to push your car, along with a Grandmother you throw peanuts at.
            How does it feel to make a stupid argument and get destroyed with verifiable facts? Or your own words?

          • David Roberson

            You are incapable of forming a coherent argument. Cars have always had the same costs. Your statement doesn’t make my argument incorrect. It only shows that you can only rely on ad hominem attacks since you are in an indefensible position.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            “You are incapable of forming a coherent argument”…….. If cars have the same cost, then the higher PRICE I pay must be going to all the (mis-)management in the company. Blue collar workers make less money than they did under in decades past and they pay higher insurance out of pocket, so that couldn’t be a contributing factor. Since wages are lower, And there are far fewer blue collar workers than in the past decades, and by your expertise and statement that “Cars always had the same costs”, I should be paying less or the same for a 2015 then I paid for a 1969 Automobile. So where is the extra charge? It must be all in (mis)management, and fallacious accounting beliefs. I think cars should be 50 cents cheaper because that is what GM saved on ignition switches.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            An “Ad Hominem” attack is a personal insult such as calling someone “idiot” or “retarded”, or threatening to throw peanuts at a Grandmas/Humans in zoos, and not using reason nor logic, nor addressing the policy or argument.

          • David Roberson

            The cars of the 60s translate to roughly the same costs as today’s cars but are vastly inferior in every way. If they built a car in the same way that they did in 1965, the car would be cheaper than the originals because the costs have come down on almost everything. Comparing a 2015 Mustang to a 1965 Mustang is like comparing blenders. The 1965 Mustang would cost $10k or so if built like it was in 1965 today. That would make it much cheaper. Something like $20k cheaper in constant dollars. Even if you make less in constant dollars, the same items are much cheaper than they would be. This means you are much better off today than 1965.

            Here are some actual prices of items that haven’t changed much:
            http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/60selectrical.html

            Most of those things are actually more expensive than their counterparts today and that is before you take account of inflation. Those $20 blenders of 1965 are the equivalent of $475 today.

            Your money changed value because the government inflated it to siphon money off and do what they wanted with it a little at a time. It is just another way to tax us but without admitting it.

          • Walt Colson

            not to sound like an ass cuz I like your posts but….
            TVs still require absolutely no monthly fee and you get 10X’s the amount of channels you got in the 60’s….
            It does require a monthly fee to view those 10x”s the channels as without paying some sort of fee today, you would just have 10x”s the channels all showing the same snow and unless I am looking for a poltergeist, I do not wish to watch it that way.

    • anonoymous

      you have a masters and only make that much!!

      I use to be a manager for a fast food chain on the west cost and was making 18.50 an hour + bonus! and i wasn’t even a store manager. they make over $100,000 a year! This company takes such great care of its employees and they have such a low turn over rate because no one ever leaves. The company invests in its employees by paying them a ]starting pay of $10.50 an hour, and in turn, the employee stays with the company for over 20 years. and the top CEO’s of the company, well if the store manager is making well over $100,000 a year, you can imagine how much the President of the company makes! This business is family owned and the secrete to their success is they don’t spend millions of dollars of advertising on TV. and millions on research developers of adding new things on their menus. The menu had been the same since the first day it open way back in 1948. Burgers, fries and and shakes made with real ice cream! Everything is fresh and never frozen with no chemicals added. They keep it old school and almost all their advertising is on Billboards and Radio ads, and their food is so amazing that people wait 15 mins if that to get their burger because the FOOD is THAT AMAZING and worth the wait! they’ve been around since 1948 and growing strong across the mid west! They even give their part time employees dental and vision and a 401K plan.

      Ever heard of In N Out Burger??

      Look it up cause its The best company to work for!

      Check to see if there is one opening near you soon, cause when they do, the line just to apply takes about an hour to stand in!!

    • Dan

      You might want to re-analyze your career choices. I have no college degree and am making just under $45 bucks an hour. However I have worked my butt off to get where I’m at. Simply giving somebody $21.16 an hour for getting out of bed makes no sense. How can somebody honestly think paying a person $21.16 an hour to flip burgers and make fries makes any sense?

      • Pappy days

        Well many CEO’s, directors, VPs, and upper echelon people in big business get millions a year and don’t do near as much as the average worker who works for 1/400th (and many times even less) than what the average CEO makes. And the real workers are the ones who have to jump through all the hoops to make their boss’s sometimes ridiculous ideas work. I have never seen a CEO yet who can do 400 times what the average worker does in a day. Most can’t even do near as much as a single worker. And many days they don’t even get out of bed. If a CEO makes 400 times what you make that’s $18000 an hour or 37.4 million a year. Apples Tim Cook makes more than 10X that at 378 million in compensation a year. Don’t you think this is even more nonsense than a min wage of $21.16 an hour or $44000 per year? A family of four can’t even make it on that when you consider a mortgage, retirement fund, health insurance and college tuition. And $7.25 or even $10 and hour is even worse than legalized slavery. It won’t even get them food, clothing and shelter. Heck even the slavers of the 19th century gave their slaves food, clothing, and a roof over their head. And it’s not just teenagers working for these wages. 40% of min wage workers are adults. If history is of any use to you , you would know that in the past competent business owners didn’t go under when min wages were raised or even when unions had power. They just had to accept the fact that they weren’t going to make as much of a windfall as before, and that their salaries would have to approach something more sane. And/or they would have to work for a change and compete for their success and not just steal from their workers what little they still had. And in fact it was better for the economy too. The economy didn’t slug along and then crash every few years like it does now. Time to end slavery again and get all those billions into the hands of the people who will circulate it through the economy again. Not hoard it in some offshore bank or other tax shelter. That will also reduce our national debt, because working people pay taxes.( The right is always coming up with this lame argument that the rich pay most of the taxes. That’s because they own 90% of the wealth. Yet as a percent of what they make they pay the least after all the loopholes and tax shelters.) Pretty stupid to expect a slave to be able to pay more of the tax burden when combined with the middle class they don’t even own 10% of all the wealth. Time to make the fat cats pay their share again. And also relieve the small business man of a lot of the tax burden along with the working man. Then a competent small business man could pay the higher wages. If they still can’t pay it than they are either greedy or incompetent and should go out of business. And if their is actually a market for what they were trying to sell, let a competent person come in and compete in the market. It worked before, and things were much better for everyone. END SLAVERY AGAIN.

        • Mert

          I’m in the Navy. I don’t make a whole ton of money, but I can live on it and buy some cool stuff too, if I’m smart. Now, it’s pretty easy to be on my hands and knees, scrubbing a deck or a toilet, or standing sentry at midnight in the sleet, or noon in August in the middle east and think about how my Captain is in his air conditioned stateroom sitting in a comfortable chair, while I’m freezing/sweltering/stuck in a hole trying to fix something and say, “you know, I deserve to make more than him. Look at the hoops I have to jump through to make his crazy ideas work.” But once I’m out of my hole, or out of the cold or hot or whatever, I once again join the ranks of critical thinking adults and say, “You know, I dropped out of college, had no real marketable skill and I’m lucky I found a place to work and a way to live. The Captain graduate with some sort of engineering degree, lifted himself above his peers who also had engineering degrees, completed a masters program, served well as a department head somewhere, served well as an Executive Officer, completed a tough command course and is now a Captain who is held accountable for everything that happens on this 2 billion dollar submarine. He’s held accountable for anything that anyone of the 130 odd officers and crew decide to do and he too has to bend to the crazy ideas that those above him come up with.” To even think for one second the way you do, that I deserve for some mythical reason to be compensated in anyway close to the way he is makes me sick to my stomach and question my manhood. You’re insane.

          • Samuel Thomas

            Your CO doesn’t make anywhere near 380 times what you make either. When you add it all up he might make triple what you make. While you’re both on leave he’s spending hours a day on the phone talking navy business while you don’t have a care in the world. Congrats, I think you just punctuated the man’s point, which was CEO’s make way to much to do so little.

          • David Roberson

            Samuel, CEOs don’t really get days off. You really think there is a CEO somewhere that doesn’t get up and watch the news, check the stock, double check the sales figures for the day, check to ensure everything is right, check his emails and reply to some of them. The job they have means that they have tremendous stress and responsibility while the guy flipping burgers is off getting high and giggling on his days off.

        • Dan

          You sound like a socialist.

    • Step

      People will always be motivated to make more money. That’s why people in companies work their way up the latter. That’s why companies always strive to turn over a greater profit even if their higher ups continue to get richer and the lower downs continue to get poorer. Even entry level management who aren’t making much for themselves which they deserved will be told to send people home just to cut back cost for example. Upper management will say it is to cover lost, but in reality it is so they can collect all that money upwards. Oh but those entry level managers might be rewarded a nice little bonus at the end of the quarter. So I suppose they aren’t that innocent either.

  • Paul

    You need to take a basic economics class. A $21 minimum wage is not viable economically.

    • ANONYMOUS

      ECONOMICS IS A BRAIN WASHING TECHNIQUE OF THE RULING ELITE: THE RIGHT KIND OF LEADERSHIP CAN PREVENT IN-EFFICIENCIES, IS THE ONE MISSING INGREDIENT IN ALL WORTHLESS CONSTITUTIONS, DOES NOT EVER TALK ABOUT NOR CONSIDER HAVING A PROPER & CORRECT LEADER TO LEAD IN THE RIGHT & CORRECT DIRECTION & WITHOUT WASTING THE LIMITED RESOURCES: EXAMPLE: USE OF DIESEL ENGINE IS BETTER AND OUGHT TO BE MADE MORE LEGAL WHILE PETROL ENGINE IS IN-EFFICIENT & OUGHT TO BE BANNED: THE REAL REASON THAT THE REVERSE IS TRUE IS FOR REASON OF FEMINISM, TO GIVE POWER TO FEMINISM, WAS THE REAL REASON PETROL ENGINE WAS MADE LEGAL WHILE DIESEL ENGINE WAS MADE NOT LEGAL, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS: EXCEPTIONS DO EXIST !

      • citizenw

        Where is Adolf when we need him, right?

    • anon

      Why? Australia has ~$16US/hr minimum wage, Sweded has ~$28US/hr minimum wage, what’s the big problem exactly?

    • Pappy

      $21. is not really that much in this day and age. People have been working for slave wages for so long now (30 yrs) that $21. seems incredible. But really, if the average middle class worker made the same percentage of the country’s total wealth or GDP as he did in the 50’s and 60’s when things were much better for everyone, (not just the top 1%), he would be making $21 an hour. And those are the standards of living we had for low wage workers back in the mid 20th century. Like the article said… shouldn’t we in the 21st century with all the increase of this nations great wealth, increase the standards of living that we expect for low wage workers? Shouldn’t society advance over time and not recede back to the barbaric squalor of the middle ages or before as fewer and fewer people own everything.? So it should actually be more than $21.16. That said, because this issue has been ignored for so long or in the case of fat cat republicans and neo liberals blocked for so long, playing catch up overnight would be quite a shock to the system as some of the incompetent less competitive businesses who have been just surviving on slave labor for so long, went out of business, and were replaced by more competent less greedy small business leaders, and until they changed the tax laws to be more friendly to small businesses and make the fat cats pay their share for a change. But we could start to phase it in over time raising it gradually over say 5 yrs.

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      ECONOMY (gk) means household. A @21 minimum wage IS VIABLE!
      VIABLE: (Latin) VITA (Life) + able , or life abling…… But by the time we get it it won’t be.

  • Bolt_V3

    Raise that to 21, sure. Watch every item on the shelf move up by the same percentage to compensate. Yeah, you’ll have people making three times what they are now… but they’ll be paying three times more for everything they buy. Businesses are not going to take that hit and not raise prices.

    So nothing will change.

    • Ken

      Man, I hate to break it to you, but the items on the shelf have already gone up by that percentage, or haven’t you all noticed that food costs have skyrocketed? None of our salaries are keeping up with inflation. It is just more visible at the lower income levels.

    • anon

      Wrong. People will pay a “market” value regardless of what minimum wage is. Yes prices will go up a little, but not proportionately. A study of any other country except your own (yes, they do exist) will confirm that for you in about 3 minutes, but you’re probably too busy spouting that tired old rhetoric to even bother doing some actual research.

  • t-rex

    So, if the minimum wage rose, and then businesses raised their prices (as if that were their only solution for recovering that money–something tells me it’s not), wouldn’t “personal income growth in the economy as a whole” still rise, leading to an even higher minimum wage, as this article says it should be tied? It seems like the idea is to create an atmosphere where businesses take other measures besides lowering wages.

    • ANONYMOUS

      ANSWER IS SO SIMPLE SIMPLE AS 1 + 1 = 2, THAT IS ALL TO HAVE THE SAME EXACT INCOME, EXCEPT FOR A FEW THAT HAVE COMMON SENSE, SUCH AS MYSELF, WOULD BE GIVEN LIMITLESS SALARY, WHILE ALL THE OTHER IDIOTS WOULD BE GIVEN SAME EXACT SALARY, AND BY THE TERM IDIOT I MEAN THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE COMMON SENSE WHICH IS 98 % OF THE HUMAN RACE DOES NOT HAVE COMMON SENSE, ELSE ILLUMINATI WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN POWER TO TAKE OVER THE HUMAN RACE. AND, 2ND PART OF SOLUTION IS TO INCREASE SALARY OF FAMILY/IES WITH CHILD[REN], IN PROPORTION TO # OF CHILD[REN] THEY HAVE WOULD BAN ALMOST ALL GAYS & LESBIANS FROM SALARY RAISE OR INCREASE. AND, 98 % OF HUMAN RACE OF ADULTS WOULD HAVE SAME SALARY, IS HOW THE PROBLEM WOULD BE SOLVED IN ONE SINGLE DAY IN HOURS !!! INCLUDING TO IMPLEMENT A DOZEN COMMON SENSE RULES AND LAWS, SUCH AS TO BAN PROPERTY TAX IS ONE OF THOSE DOZEN RULES&LAWS INCLUDING TO BAN MANUFACTURE & SELLING OF ANY CANDY THAT HAS TOXIC LEVEL AMOUNT OF SUGAR IN IT, INCLUDING NO CARAMEL IN IT, IS 2ND RULE OR LAW OF THE DOZEN COMMON SENSE RULES AND LAWS !!!! INCLUDING TO BAN ALIMONY & CHILD SUPPORT & ALLOW POLYGAMY IS HOW TO STOP EVIL FEMINISM, IS TEST BY THE EVIL ILLUMINATI IF HUMANS DESERVE FREEDOMS OR NOT: HUMANS R FAILING TEST, REFERRING TO TEST OF COMMON SENSE. NEW RULING ELITE WOULD BE CREATED, NOT BASED ON MERITOCRACY NOR BASED ON ROYALTY NOR BASED ON STRENGTH NOR ON IQ LEVEL NOR ON LEVEL OF COURAGE NOR ON ATHLETIC ABILITY, BUT RATHER BASED ON LEVEL OF COMMON SENSE: ONE WITH MOST AMOUNT OF COMMON SENSE WOULD BE AT TOP OF THE RULING ELITE CLASS AND THOSE LACKING COMMON SENSE WOULD BE NEAR BOTTOM OF SOCIETY EVEN IF THAT PERSON SEEM TO BE A BRILLIANT SCIENTIST WOULD EARN SAME SALAR THAT OF ALL OTHER WORKERS IF LACKING IN COMMON SENSE, OUGHT TO BE THE ONLY CRITERIA TO WHERE THAT PERSON TO BE IN THE RULING STRUCTURE OF SOCIETY: WOULD ALSO GET RID OF ALL THE BULLY BOSS IN MANAGEMENT THAT HAVE IQ [COMMON SENSE] OF ANIMALS OR BUGS: HUMANS DO NOT VALUE COMMON SENSE IS THE REASON WHY SOCIETY IS SO MESSED UP & GETTING MESSIER MORE SO

      • idiotFinderNumberTwo

        “NOR ON IQ LEVEL…RATHER BASED ON LEVEL OF COMMON SENSE”

        “HAVE IQ [COMMON SENSE]”

        Nice way to contradict your self. Is IQ common sense or not? Maybe you should figure that out.

        I don’t even know how to reply to the rest. My intuition tells me you either have a few screws loose or are very young. In both cases you have a very iffy definition of common sense.

        Just for your reference. the definition of common sense is “Good sense and sound judgment in practical matters”.

        • citizenw

          Squirt that CapsLock key with a little WD-40

      • emjayay

        Please discover the caps lock key on your keyboard. Press it once. Hold down the shift key when typing the first word in a sentence.

  • RM

    I make $20,000/year, before taxes. That’s the most I’ve ever earned, and I’m in my early 30’s. Minimum wage jobs are not supposed to be for 30 year olds like me. They are meant for younger folks who are just starting out. You start out at minimum wage and work your way up within that company, or you start a business or get educated and move on to bigger things. It sucks that minimum wage is so low, but you aren’t guaranteed $10/hour just because you have a job. the real problem is that it’s so expensive to simply LIVE. Rent, car payments, gas, utilities, and basic food is all EXPENSIVE. I live on generic food and cheap veggies, have no rent, and still never have money to save up! The system as a whole is messed up, but raising the minimum wage to $10+ will only cause more economic distress,and low wage earners like me will lose our jobs.

    • ANONYMOUS

      YOU CAN BLAME OUR IDIOTIC GOVERNMENT FOR OBEYING TO IDIOTIC ILLUMINATI WHICH HAVE ALMOST NO COMMON SENSE: IF GOVERNMENTS DID NOT CHARGE PROPERTY TAX, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SALARY INCREASE NOR WORRY ABOUT DEFAULTING ON LOANS EITHER ! INCLUDING WOULD DECREASE IN DEMAND FOR COLLEGE EDUCATION & WOULD RESULT IN DECREASE IN COLLEGE COST WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER PEOPLE WITH EDUCATION THAT WANT AN EDUCATION RATHER THAN BEING FORCED TO GET AN EDUCATION BECAUSE IT’S THE LAW TO PAY BRIBE $ TO GOVERNMENT IN FORM OF DEGREE TO HAVE RIGHT TO PERMIT TO WORK IS WHAT DEGREE IS PERMIT TO WORK, SORT OF LIKE THE FAKE MARRIAGE LICENSE IS PERMIT TO HAVE SEX IS EXAMPLE OF THE LUNACY OF GOVERNMENT: IS WHY THE ONLY 2 REAL POLITICAL PARTIES ARE LIBERTARIAN & ANARCHIST: OUGHT TO BE IN ALL COUNTRIES TO RID OF ALL OTHER POLITICAL PARTIES & FOR USA TO RID OF REPUBLICANS & DEMOCRATS WORK FOR THE SAME MAFIA ORGANIZATION OF ILLUMINATI

      • pappy

        No property taxes means no schools, roads, sewers, water, etc. Where do you think the government gets the money to maintain all of this.?

    • ANONYMOUS

      I have to admire you for being one of the few that makes a low wage that gets it and doesn’t feel like they are owed something. Honestly that’s probably because your in your 30s not 20s.

      Things are expensive, your right! My guess is you are looking for something better… and that should be how it works to be honest.

      I’m not saying that $7 an hour is enough to live off of, but I am saying that a person should be responsible for trying to educate themselves and try and advance to a higher paying job.

      Has anyone given any thought to what would happen to the job market if minimum wage was $10 or $20 an hour. Everyone complains that jobs are moving to Mexico & China… but labor + shipping is cheaper than $10 an hour so companies go where they spend less money. Do we really want to make the minimum wage so high that every non-skilled worker in America cant find a job?

      • pappy

        So if they send all these low paying jobs to mexico, laying off all the American workers, who will buy all these products? A bunch of dirt poor Mexicans? Making 50 cents an hour? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Thats why more jobs are returning to America. Even though Americans make much more. We finally realized after 20 yrs went by that when this strategy becomes rampant as it has , there are millions of layed off non consumers and non-customers. It’s like a pyramid scheme that only makes money for the first few companies that start it. But as the unemployment rate goes up, sales go down.

    • Robert Johns

      You’re wrong, because you lack a fundamental insight, it ios not the wealthy who create jobs, it is the consumers, consumers drive demand, demand increases when consumers have money to spend, how much demand is there in an economy where the vast majority of potential consumers have no disposable income? None, they are all too busy just staying alive, the moment that an economy has disposable income in the hands of the bulk of the consumers the economy is driven forward, wealthy 0.1%’s do not spend as much of their income on goods as the people in the 99%, if I earn 10 bucks an hour and a ceo is earning 1000 bucks an hour I am buying 1 car, he isn’t buying 100 cars, if I buy 10 pairs of jeans he isnt buying 1000 pairs of jeans, the higher up you go in the wealth chain the tinier & tinier the proportion of income earnt to income spent becomes, the more money you have the more that money is stagnated, & it is not flowing through the economy creating demand, creating jobs, essentially wealthy people don’t create jobs they kill jobs by stifling & stagnating the flow of money through the economy.

    • pappy

      Yeah that’s right. There are vacant higher paying jobs by the millions all over the place. When you get that experience you talk about just go out and pick one up. Piece of cake. Raising the min wage increases spending by millions of low wage workers. This is a consumer economy. Increased spending means more products and services will be sold. Which means businesses will have to expand to meet demand, which means more jobs. Not less. Comprende? Businesses that survive only on slave labor are incompetent and should fail. So that a more competent businessman can take over, make a profit based on the value of the product not on the amount he can cheat his workers out of.

  • Sprad4

    Excellent analysis of income inequality. We are bloated at the top, and unfortunately the CEO’s set their income at astronomical rates which are unnecessary and exorbitant. None of them are worth those obscene amounts of money. Money is like manure: if you spread it around it makes things grow, but if you pile it high it stinks to high heaven.

    • ANONYMOUS

      EXACTLY: I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR DECADES: IT SEEMS THAT ONLY 2% OF HUMAN RACE HAS COMMON SENSE, WHILE THE OTHER 98 % R IDIOTS, IS WHAT PEOPLE R, WHEN IT COMES TO ECONOMICS AND POLITICS & DOING THE RIGHT THING & TO WHAT TO ALLOW AND NOT ALLOW INCLUDING GREATLY REDUCING POWER OF COPS AND POLICE ARE GIVEN POWER OF THE GODS TO THEM IS WHY ALMOST ALL COPS & POLICE ACT LIKE THUGS IN UNIFORM: SAME RESULT IN ALL COUNTRIES, BECAUSE ALL COUNTRIES R RULED BY TH AME EVIL MAFAI ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATE CARTEL ILLUMINATI R BUNCH OF ZIONIST & IDIOT SAVANTS WHO WANT TO CRATE BLISS BUT HAVE NO COMMON SENSE IS WHY THE ILLUMINATI FAIL EACH & EVERY TIME TO CREATE BLISS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE COMMON SENSE & THAT ALSO GOES FOR REST OF THE HUMAN POPULATION ALSO LACK COMMON SENSE SINCE HUMANS GIVE LIMITLESS POWER TO ILLUMINATI TO CREATE BAD LAWS TO HUMANS THEN WONDER WHY ? THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION WAS FAKE & IS FAKE & MEANT TO BE FAKE BUT GULLIBLE PEOPLE DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE OF PROPAGANDA IS HOW ROTHSCHILDS TOOK OVER THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AND THE SAME WITH WITH ALL COUNTRIES BY DECEPTIVE CONSTITUTIONS R MEANT TO GIVE POWER TO THE ROTHSCHILDS R BUNCH OF ZIONIST IDIOT SAVANTS

      • Alden

        A lot of the populous aren’t really idiots. They are just so focused on how to pay for their rent and eat a decent meal every day, they don’t have time to focus on making their lives better, or to be able to notice whats going on in politics, and thats exactly what the rich douchebags want so they can push things through legislation that reinforced this system of exploitation.

        However, the rest of the populous who distract themselves with sports and choose to ignore the world around them are indeed very stupid.

      • ger320

        Stop shouting in print!!! And, I would not read it.

    • nunya

      “We are bloated at the top, and unfortunately the CEO’s set their income at astronomical rates …” This is just a not factual. Board of directors generally set the pay for the CEO’s. The Board of directors are voted on by shareholders. If you really do not like it, become a shareholder. Get with your shareholders and make a change.

      CEO’s just like low level workers are offered a position and negotiate for their compensation. The CEO has more skills and has a stronger case for his compensation. While I think many seem over paid, That is up to the shareholders,board of directors, and owners of those institutions. Become one of those 3 and you will have a say in that.
      If you aren’t and still dislike it you other option is to not offer patronage to those business that you disagree with.

    • David Roberson

      If good leadership from a CEO results in an extra 1% increase in profit at a company like Walmart. That means 1% of $15B, which is $150M. Seems like if I thought someone would make me $150,000,000, I’d be happy to share 10% with them. Just to put it in perspective.

      • Joe

        If the company makes money, say a whopping 1%, the CEO will take all the credit, and the profit, eliminating it. If the company loses money, The CEO will blame the workers, the economy, the minimum wage is too high, costs are too high, or any other justification to allay the guilt they possess. The CEO gets paid more in bad years and even more yet in good years.

        The persons that created that $150M profit are the employees and the purchasers. The CEO just takes the credit, the money, the prestige, the vacation, and the business meetings that would also be a vacation for NORMAL people.
        There is NO possibility that a CEO works as hard as the “10,000” workers.
        In order for that to happen, we would need 24,000 Hours in a day For CEO’s with no breaks, sleeping,or eating, while the rest of us live in REAL time.

        • David Roberson

          Who do you pay more? The guy mowing your yard or the guy designing your house?

          Do you think the guy designing your house should make less per hour than the guy who is doing the framing?

          Why?

          • Joe

            I pay neither. The designer of 100 year old houses is dead. I cut my own lawn… Should I take aout my wallet and put it into the other pocket? Are we serving the living or the dead? If I did not cut my lawn, I could harvest wheat on my own lawn, but that is against the (6 inch cut) LAW. But we digress………

          • David Roberson

            lololol. People will read these discussions for years and think to themselves. “Wow… this Joe guy is a tool.” I’m done arguing with you since you refuse to actually respond to anything presented.

          • Joe

            PROMISE? As soon as you respond you break your word.

  • http://twitter.com/flowerpot504 aboveTHEclouds

    If minimum wage earners earned $50.00 an hr. they would remain minimum wage earners and thus will not experience an increase in goods and services; on the contrary, some will receive less. The more money in circulation, the more owners will charge for goods and services negating any salary increase.

    • ANONYMOUS

      NOT IF EVERY ADULT EARNING HAD SAME EXACT INCOME, EXCEPT FOR FAMILY/IES WITH CHILDREN, THOSE FAMILY/IES OUGHT TO BE GIVEN LARGER SALARY, PROPORTIONAL TO # OF CHILDREN THEY HAVE, WOULD BAN ALMOST ALL GAYS AND LESBIANS FROM ANY KIND OF SALARY RAISE WOULD SOLVE 77 % OF ALL ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OVER-NIGHT IN A DAY: THIS IS THE POWER OF COMMON SENSE IF HUMANS ONLY HAD COMMON SENSE IS LACKING IN HUMANS ARE ONLY SLIGHTLY SMARTER THAN BUGS

      • IdiotFinder

        The biggest idiot of them all going around calling others idiots. Thanks for the entertainment!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Natalie-A-Sera/743004321 Natalie A. Sera

        DON’T reward having more children! The world is grossly overpopulated as is. Concentrate on keeping the birthrate low, and then take good care of the children who are born. Let them be healthy, educated, and happy, and appreciate every person who is doing a job that has to be done. An honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work. Yes, some differential, but not the gross one that we’re currently seeing.

        • Rob

          labor is not the only cost in a product

    • pappy

      prices have continued upward. Without pause. Despite the economy and increased unemployment and lost wealth. The wage follows the inflation not the other way around. If wages are not increased with inflation you fall further and further behind because there is always inflation. We are now about 30 yrs behind. And have been doing the same stupid thing every time someone brings this issue up. And people are getting poorer. Maybe we should try the other approach don’t you think? It worked quite well back in the 60’s remember?

  • http://twitter.com/rustylongwood Rusty Longwood

    You’re making the ridiculous assumption that adjusting for inflation from one period to another only allows people to live at the standard of living of that previous period. That’s absolutely and completely false. While basic amenities such as food and power have matched inflation, the luxuries and technological advancements which have increased the standard of living so much have actually fallen substantially relative to inflation. A week’s minimum wage salary today can buy an internet connected laptop thousands of times more powerful than the world’s most powerful, warehouse-filling super computer in 1968. You can buy an 82 inch DLP 3D HDTV today for less than the greatest 23-inch color tube TV in 1968 after inflation! The cost of a new subcompact car in 1968 can get you a new subcompact today- but with all sorts of standard features like an automatic transmission, power steering, air-conditioning, CD players, power doors, power windows, front and side airbags, crumple zones, seatbelts, close to double the horsepower, twice the fuel efficiency, often an expected lifespan of 200,000 miles which would have been entirely unheard of in 1968! Ordinary Walmart workers can afford iPhones and iPads, technology not even the richest businessmen 20 years ago could have had! Our gas is unleaded, our homes are no longer covered in lead paint, many of our appliances use half the energy they used just 20 years ago. A wage adjusted for inflation leads to a higher standard of living over the years, not a lower one! To say that wages have to increase faster than inflation in order to allow for a higher standard of living is simply false. Further increasing minimum wages only incentivizes companies to either move jobs overseas or to invest more into downsizing or replacing their labor force with robots.

    • ANONYMOUS

      YOU DO NOT HAVE COMMON SENSE: DO YOU KNOW THAT A BOTTLE OF ROASTED PEANUTS IS NOW $ 6 TO $ 9 FOR BOTTLE OF ROASTED PEANUTS

      • davidotazu

        Why do you use all caps, repeat portions of your sentence and not argue against the main argument? Don’t fill the internet with trash.

      • Preston

        So a bottle of roasted peanuts cost $6 for a bottle of roasted peanuts to $9 for a bottle of roasted peanuts? How much money did you expect to pay for a bottle of roasted peanuts? $3 for a bottle of roasted peanuts? $4 for a bottle of roasted peanuts? A bottle of roasted peanuts is a lot of peanuts for a bottle of roasted peanuts at $6 for a bottle of roasted peanuts. Bottle of roasted peanuts.

        • scandalosa

          bwahahahahah

        • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

          We’re not working for peanuts!!!!
          We work for paper.
          An equal tax cut , just above the poverty line for everybody would be equally beneficial…. it’d end food stamps… If Walmart or GM gets tax breaks why not you? You are a living human American

    • emjayay

      And housing in many markets, most people’s main expense, has doubled and tripled and quadrupled in many areas, corrected for inflation, from 1968.

    • CF

      I make slightly above the minimum wage and can’t even fathom being able to buy all of the things you say I can. I am too busy trying to afford my rent, utilities and student loans. No cable television for me. No new DVD player for me. No 3D HDTV or brand new laptop either. The article is discussing the cost of living and the last time I checked, none of the items you’ve listed are essential to our quality of life!

      • Aries

        Why are you making “slightly above minimum wage,” yet you have student loans? If you have to pay back student loans for a degree which does not pay well, that is your fault, not the government’s, nor your employer’s. You cannot get a Master’s Degree in Puppetry and then be astonished when you have to pay it back making nothing. I have no degree nor school loans, but I am a skilled worker that makes $14.70 an hour and I am quite able to afford an apartment, HDTV, internet, tablet, laptop, cat, and have plenty enough to save $7,000 a year until I have enough to buy a house – cash.

        • Maggie Moss

          If $14.70 were minimum wage we’d all be in much better shape.

          • David Roberson

            If $14.70 were minimum wage then everyone who makes $14.70 now would be making minimum wage. Prices would rise accordingly. People who make $25 an hour would lose a huge portion of their purchasing power. You would destroy the middle class in one fell swoop. You would be breaking the rungs off the whole bottom half of the ladder so that everyone would standing on the ground at the bottom. I don’t see how everyone would be in better shape. Forcing everyone to be poor because some people don’t care enough to try is pretty stupid.

          • Chris Miller

            Prices already have gone up accordingly. The middle class is done. Nice try though.

        • Elvis Rodas

          Your a lier…14.70 an hr is 24000 a year. After taxes if your single or married no kids. Say these were your honest bills.
          Rent 500.00
          Food 350
          Phone 80
          Healthcare 200
          Gas 200
          Utilities 150
          Incidentals 50
          Car insurance 50
          $1580.00 monthly. So after all your bills. (Bare Bones)
          Thats about $5900 a year if you spent nothing on any entertainment or car payment other than to subsist.. Plain n simple your an internet geniu. A wise ass probably living at home with your parents.

          • David Roberson

            It is liar. Also, you can’t do math can you? $14.70 x 40 hours is $588. $588 x 52 weeks is $30,576. This is saying that you don’t get a bonus, overtime, ect. Very few people with a total income of $30k would be getting taxed at 20%. The tax rate is 10% for the first $9k or so and then 15% for the rest up to $37k That isn’t counting your personal exemption and the like. He is probably only getting taxes on 23-24k and then only 15% on 15k or so. You are talking $3k vs the $6k number you used.

            Why do you assume everyone spends 80 on a phone? My wife and I spend about $60 with unlimited on our 2 smartphones. 200 in gas? Everyone doesn’t have a 30 mile commute. Everyone doesn’t even have a car. Maybe he has a motorcycle, scooter, rides the bus, or has a bike. I average about $75 a month in health care since I am not a sickly person – the cost of my insurance premium. Younger people don’t have as much of a healthcare burden. I have a HSA through my employer that gets a couple hundred dollar contribution a year. Even if I got really sick this year, it would cover most of my deductible. $2-300 a month in your incorrect assumptions and $2000-3000 incorrect tax assumptions equals about what he says he saves. That gives him about $5k a year to spend on cocaine, beer, and chasing women. Seriously… some people are just good with money.

          • Joe

            D. R. I am so glad your math skills are good, just like the Lawyers, CEO’s and Accountants who constantly count pennies in order to keep more and give less. A few pennies stolen from the workers translates into millions on the upper end, and just think how much the elite would make if the workers pay for their own health care , because those rich millionaires can’t afford it (?!), though they used to.
            Ironic, since the health of the workers is most likely damaged by doing work the accountants, Lawyers, and CEO’s both profited by, and will not do themselves

          • Joe

            D.R., In your impressive math skills you stole the taxes from the government, and a vacation from everybody. Where is my two week vacation? I guess that’s what you get with minimum wages.
            No matter, I can’t pay my health care unless I work all the time. Now I am working 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year for Doctors, Lawyers, and Insurance providers who I never see, and although they claim to be “working for me”, in fact I am working for them. And if I use my insurance, I have co-pays, and will miss out on hours of pay that I needed to pay the insurance and co-pays. And if that isn’t bad enough, I will lose my dwelling because I was sick, or wanted a $6 bag of peanuts, instead of paying for heat, water, or rent with my minimum wage. If only we all had your Job, D.R. Everybody would be ok, then, except you, you would be out of your little more than the minimum wage job, that is, if you don’t get sick and die first from the gross things minimum wage workers do to your fast food when they know they are filling DR’s order.

          • David Roberson

            I’m not even sure what you are talking about with this. I simply laid out the numbers for people who obviously didn’t understand them and weren’t capable of doing so for themselves. This is why you make minimum wage. You are an idiot.

            You work to feed yourself, clothe yourself, keep yourself healthy , and have a place to live. You require other people to produce the food you eat, make the clothes you wear, make the medicines and perform the procedures you need, build your house, produce your electricity, and so on. We live in a very complicated world that requires people who are very organized, reliable, intelligent, and motivated to run it at the levels we are at. The level of responsibility must match the level of compensation.

            I make quite a bit more than minimum wage, but it wasn’t always so. I’ve hard hard times and easy times. If I wanted something, I tried harder. If I wanted an easy time, I cut away things I didn’t need as much.

            Anyone who makes minimum wage makes it because they don’t care to move up in the world. $10 an hour jobs are easy to find. If you can’t live off of $10 an hour then it is because you are watching the Kardashians too much and think that you should be living in a castle. What kind of peanuts are you buying for $6?

            I have no problem with people who make minimum wage. I have a problem with people who think their absolute minimum effort is worth the good life. If I lost my job, I would just go get another one. I’ve never not been able to find a job. I go to work every day, I do my job, and I try to do it to the benefit of my employer. This is why I still have my job and why I make more than minimum wage.

          • Joe

            This was never a debate about minimum wage workers, rather, raising the minimum wage. You have totally assumed that minimum wage has anything to do with minimized effort.

            My 2nd Job was at a grocer, and I worked HARD. My manager, seeing this, gave me lots more work, and asked me to do things not in my job description, that he would not ask of other employees. He expected me to do 2-4 times more for the same low wage he paid everybody else, and I had work no one else was asked to do. I was never offered a raise for my efforts from this grocer chain that no longer exists, nor my manager. EXPLOIT.

          • David Roberson

            What does being able to do math have to do with being evil or cold hearted? The accountants, lawyers, and CEOs are doing work that the ‘workers’ are not capable of doing or don’t want to do. In the same way that some people pay someone else to mow their yard. The people mowing the yard aren’t taking advantage of anyone.

            Also, you have a twisted idea of what good math skills are. That is 3rd grade basic math. I simply looked at an obviously incorrect premise and then figured out why it was incorrect. Being able to do that isn’t anything great. I actually understand the thing I have opinions on. If I didn’t understand them then I wouldn’t bother to have an opinion until I did.

            I’m not sure why you think money was stolen from the government anywhere in there or why you think any money is the government’s to begin with. You obviously have never had to run a business or worry about making a profit. Just keep flippin’ those burgers.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Who prints the money? How do you know when they stop or start printing?
            MATHEMATICAL:(GREEK) > MATHEMATIKOS: inclined to learn. > MATHEMA what is learned >Manthenein to learn
            Mathematics is LEARNING TO LEARN.
            I only flip burgers on the grill in my back yard.
            10 years ago I bought GROUND ROUND at $1.39 Lb.
            Today, greasy HAMBURGER is $2.99 Lb. ON SALE!!!
            Please compare to the minimum wage increase. Has it more than doubled like the price of the lowest grade of meat?

          • David Roberson

            You are confusing issues. The government’s run away printing and destruction of the value of peoples labor has nothing at all to do with capitalism. It is just another form of taxation. 50″ LED TVs were $2-3k 10 years ago. They will be on sell for $2-300 next week.

            Inflation is a separate issue. You should target the government intentionally destroying the purchasing power of the people rather than the businesses. They only follow the rules that the government puts in place.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Ooooooo……”Black Friday”….. Seems like some sort of “Black” celebration. Could even be evil at the heart of it the more I think About the way it sounds.
            Frenzy and Chaos as people trample each other for the Best deals!!! How about “NO THANKSGIVING”? Screw the family! I want a big Fat TV! Or Let’s call it what it is “HAPPY MONEYGIVING”!
            I hope they don’t put that stuff on the high shelves! I can’t wait to watch the races on the mourning NEWS….

          • Chris Miller

            Wrong. It’s 29,000 for a 40 hour work week. Try again.

          • Chris Miller

            Oh and after taxes, you can do a blanket on what you will or won’t get back.

    • Step

      Ordinary walmart workers can afford iphones and ipads probably because you can get them for free or for an extreme reduced price by signing a 2 year contract with a phone service.

      • Elvis Rodas

        Most walmart workers are also on food stamp assistance. But aries is a genius. Thats why he makes 14.70 an hour.

        • David Roberson

          Being on food stamps only means that someone in the government thinks you deserve money more than the people who actually earned it. Nothing more, nothing less.

          • Joe

            Welfare: (NOUN) 1. The state of being or doing well; condition of health, happiness and prosperity; well being.

            (Webster’s New world dictionary, 1968)

            This is what you fight against. The state of being or doing well; condition of health, happiness and prosperity; well being.

            What you fight PRO or FOR is the state of being or doing evil; condition of disease, misery and poverty, and the right to take advantage of others, including YOU.

            I say every Dollar is a food stamp. Being on Dollars means that someone from a company who pays you is actually stealing from you. No employer pays you his profit, that is what he keeps. He gets it from our co – operation. If that someone doesn’t profit, you are terminated (ended, nez pa?)

          • David Roberson

            First, your definition of welfare is correct. Food stamps are considered a type of welfare. However, welfare as the government considers it isn’t welfare as the definition defines it.

            Kind of like Democrats call themselves “liberals” when they aren’t very liberal or liberty minded. I can call a pile of shit ‘cake’, but it doesn’t make it taste sweet or have frosting. Calling my shit ‘cake’ doesn’t change the definition of cake. I can’t then point to the definition of cake and say “Look, my shit is cake because I call it cake.”

            Welfare. Africans are starving in Africa. Using the world ‘welfare’ in the way which you do, I could argue that enslaving all the Africans would be ‘welfare’. They wouldn’t be starving and they would have a productive life. Making someone dependent on you isn’t in their best interest. You are simply making a slave of them regardless how you look at it. Call it cake all you like.

            If someone owns a wheat farm and I own a flour mill. I can see them doing the farming work and me doing the milling work. Assuming roughly equal input, we split the proceeds. Seems fair. If someone owns the wheat farm, the mill, and all the things needed to make the flour and I come over and make the flour for them then it would hardly be fair for me to get half the proceeds. I would say that I should get much less than half in that instance. If someone owns the farm and grows the wheat and then someone else buys it and gives it to me to turn into flour then they didn’t really do much of the work. However, they did own enough labor to buy the wheat. Whether they were the actual farmer or the middle man – they had labor in the form of dollars. That is what money represents. If the middle man’s time and effort wasn’t valuable then the miller and the farmer would cut him out and live without him. However, both the miller and the farmer benefit from the middle man. A CEO is part of the cooperation. You seem to be confused with how things work.

            Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat.

            She called her neighbors and said, “If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?”

            “Not I,” said the cow.

            “Not I,” said the duck.

            “Not I,” said the pig.

            “Not I,” said the goose.

            “Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.

            The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. “Who will help me reap my wheat?” asked the little red hen.

            “Not I,” said the duck.

            “Out of my classification,” said the pig.

            “I’d lose my seniority,” said the cow.

            “I’d lose my unemployment compensation,” said the goose.

            “Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.

            At last it came time to bake the bread. “Who will help me bake the bread?” asked the little red hen.

            “That would be overtime for me,” said the cow.

            “I’d lose my welfare benefits,” said the duck.

            “I’m a dropout and never learned how,” said the pig.

            “If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,” said the goose.

            “Then I will,” said the little red hen.

            She baked five loaves and held them up for her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share.

            But the little red hen said, “No, I can eat the five loaves.”

            “Excess profits!” cried the cow.

            “Capitalist leech!” screamed the duck.

            “I demand equal rights!” yelled the goose.

            And the pig just grunted.

            And they painted “unfair” picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.

            When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, “You must not be greedy.”

            “But I earned the bread,” said the little red hen.

            “Exactly,” said the agent. “That is the wonderful
            free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he
            wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive
            workers must divide their product with the idle.”

            And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, “I am grateful. I am grateful.”

            But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread.

            You are the cow, the duck, and the goose.

          • Joe

            David Roberson,

            I ‘ll be the cow, duck, and the goose as long as you insist on being an Ass. a very stubborn one at that. But your story is not complete. You forgot about the gov’t converting all the bread into paper. The little Red hen who received the paper dollars, found she couldn’t afford the 6 loaves of bread she baked after the vendors bought it for paper. That the ASS insisted the little red hen got a fair deal (because the ASS, an authority believed his own authority was authentic). And on further thought, the ASS decided the little Red hen deserved less paper, and a health care bill; since she was sick because she didn’t have enough bread to eat.

            Later the friends of an ASS decided the little red hen’s coop was not nice enough, and she was forced by the Rule of an ASS to take out a mortgage, and borrow paper to improve her coop.

            Later the Ass and his Banker and Lawyer came to take the coop, after the improvements the Ass rule demanded were complete, since the little red hen didn’t have any more paper. The little Red Hen died that winter in the gutter under the Ass coop where the ASS now lived. And the Ass told himself he was so much better than the little red hen as he ate the bread he had traded paper for.

            And the Ass took the paper he had given AND taken from the Hen and gave it to the pig to do the dirty burial.

            So that the eyes (and conscious) of the ASS would not be hindered, nor harmed. So pleased was the Ass with the pig, he gave the pig a nice blue uniform and more paper than anyone but the Ass. Paper to do all the things the Ass insisted were so righteous, and made him police chief. And the pig pointed his gun at everybody. And when the gun went off, he got the Ass to say it was “JUSTIFIED under my authority of LAW.
            And the Ass , feeling so guilty, raised his salary so that he could order the other animals around, and pay other Animals to tell him how much he deserved to live in such a fine coop.
            The ASS did his best to forget about all the evil he did and how he took advantage of his neighbors, because he was such a self proclaimed righteous ass. Finally the Ass had his head inserted up his Ass so he could not see all the misery that began with an Ass.

            D.R.: Plant your wheat. Shit comes out an Ass. It is excellent fertilizer. When you get your head out of your ass, I will do the milagro.

            And finally, It may be possible that your cake IS shit. When you study etymology it will help open your eyes.
            ETY = ROOT ology>LOGOS

            CAKE: OE from Scandinavian origin; related to the Swedish KAKA

          • David Roberson

            Oh, I get it. You are retarded. No one forces the hen to trade anything for money. They do it because they want and need things. You are also confusing twenty issues to justify your non defensible beliefs.

          • Jesus Christ, Messiah

            Do unto others as you would have done to you…….

          • William Avitt

            David Roberson, OMG, I laughed so hard at the first sentence of this comment, because I have been thinking the same thing this entire conversation. I came here in research of my own argument against a couple of socialist morons who don’t seem to understand minimum wage or how it impacts society, and got sucked in to these comments. I have been reading these for like an hour and oh, that line made my day. Joe truly is retarded. I kinda feel bad making fun of him because he legitimately is incapable of forming a coherent thought, and that makes me sad. After listening to this walking abortion, the two troglodytes I’m arguing with seem like certifiable members of Mensa. Bravo, Sir. Bravo.

          • David Roberson

            I just calls em as I sees em. It is pretty common for people to act like Joe does offline. Unfortunately, most people are also like Joe and don’t really understand what they are hearing. They can be convinced of all sorts of nonsense. Then what happens is that they hear it and believe it without really understanding it. Then they repeat it. They are so sure of themselves that they repeat it like they are saying the word of God. It spreads like a disease through the ignorant populace.

            There are many evil deeds that need to be rectified but raising minimum wage doesn’t fix anything.

          • Joe

            Et tu, Brute?

          • Joe

            In Debate, the sure sign of a losing argument is insulting your opponent. It is a most basic rule that you have broken. David, by posting an insult, you have lost the debate, by resorting to name calling.

          • David Roberson

            Hey Joe. You called me an ASS 20 times in your statement that was a reply to. That means the debate was over since you lost it and started with the name calling, right? Aside from that, I didn’t insult you. I made an observation. I sincerely believe you to be retarded.

          • Joe

            You are only an ass “…………as long as you insist on being an Ass. a very stubborn one at that”.

          • David Roberson

            Most people just shrug and give up after you have proven that you are an idiot don’t they, Joey? I think anyone reading this with any sort of knowledge, logic, or intelligence can plainly see that you know absolutely nothing and are angry because you are a failure at life. I hope you get better. I’m sorry.

          • Joe

            Keep reading
            Idiot comes from the greek from idios meaning “own, private”.
            “You’re living in your own private idaho”. Get the joke now?
            Really Dave, join the human race.

            Your opinions are not proof. You were convinced of your own opinion beforehand, which proofs only that you believe you. Be kinder.

          • Joe

            Th LAW forces you to trade bread for paper. The LAW allowed the paper holders to make a profit off of labor they did not provide, but still claimed to do so. The Law allowed the markup of goods by the paperholders so they would profit off of the Labor they would not do, the service (other than the serfs they enslaved) they did not do, the products they did not make, The health care they would not provide (except if they profit by it).
            The truth will set you free,
            But Judges, cops, and Lawyers will lock you up.

    • Jim Kaye

      The cost of housing is twice the inflation rate of the average median wage.

      • Aries

        Both the quality and size of houses has increased drastically since 1968. Not saying that is the yardstick by which you’re measuring, but if so, the average home was 983 square feet in the 1950s – up to 2300 square feet in the 2000s. Perhaps that would explain the doubling of cost. Not to mention now we don’t use ASBESTOS, LEAD PAINT, and use energy efficient appliances and significantly more insulation and wiring. Furthermore, the number of people has increased greatly, and also the rapid flight of people to urban areas, which are obviously of a fixed size. Same supply, higher demand… high prices.

    • Joseph

      Perhaps some of that is true, BUT, my 1968 TV would still work and get free signals if not for digital encryption. People long for thier 68 compact mustang/camaros, and don’t like thier 2000+ subsubsubcompact. The air bags in a 70’s Ford still work as good as the car, but my new car airbags may shoot shrapnel through me or any passenger. I am not mechanically inclined, but I could change the water pump on my old cars, and can’t even change the oil on my new car without breaking my warranty. My new Laptop, or cellphone battery or even my Chevyoldsmobuick key ignition may burst into flames and I can’t get paid unless I die; and If I live, those corporate bodies will spend millions to insure all I get is pain, and the BILL. Indeed we live in amazing times, but our kids ignore us because we told them that faux shiny lights in a cell phone are better than reality.

    • Joe

      Damned if we do Damned if we don’t

  • Freeloader Bob

    A minimum wage of $22/hr would not only redistribute wealth to the people who created it, it would also force up all other wages which would truly be a rising tide that lifts all boats.

    • Williamson

      That’s true Freeloader Bob, but as the expression goes “somethings gotta give”. The minimum wage doesn’t have to skyrocket all the way to 22/hr but it does need to go up at least 10%. The longer it’s ignored the sooner we can expect this country to corrode.

    • nunya

      “it would also force up all other wages which would truly be a rising tide that lifts all boats.” That is exactly true. In the long run It would dramatically raise the cost of living and then you will be here saying the same exact thing about $35/hr and so on and so on.

      The people will be making more money .. so more disposable money(we know most wont be saving it), at the same time the costs for the business go up(we know that the business will do their best to keep the profit margin the same), therefore cost of goods and services and living go up. The guy that is at minimum wage has no higher level of living BUT in the transition many people will get hurt … business not reacting fast enough go bankrupt or have to downsize.

      • David Roberson

        Not to mention the middle class would no longer exist outside of the very few who make $200k+

  • Engineering student

    Think of everything as relative. If it costs $4X to hire an employee to flip burgers the burger will now cost roughly 4x more. Or the burger company will no longer be prophitable. This means your burger flipper still has the same amount of buying power he had before. The only thing that changes is that his meager retirement account is now worth 4x less than its previous value.

    When I worked at mcd’s minimum wage was 5.15 and an average meal was $4. Now minimum wage is 7.78 (colorado) and a Big Mac meal is now roughly 7.50.

    Yes there is some lag involved in the price hike vs minimum wage hike. However, the only thing accomplished is that incentive to save your money is greatly reduced.

    It’s cool to look like your backing the “poor” but make sure your really doing them a favor before patting your self on the back.

    Yes I do have a bias as someone perusing a high paying career, but I have worked minimum wage I am also not opposed to searching for jobs in greener pastures.

    • Anon

      That’s not even true. Here, in Aus, the minimum wage is $16/hour and a big mac meal costs $8. Stick to engineering and don’t bother commenting on economics until you properly educate yourself on it.

      • Joe

        And here in Michigan, the MIN wage is $8.15. The Big mac alone is about $4. For half the Australian minimum wage you get a meal, and our half, we get a sandwich.

    • samuel

      Its Because the Rich don’t wan’t to loose a Penny by giving better standar life its alsoe mean to not do 5 milion a year but rougly 3 ,6 million lolll oh no i won’t have the new bentley because of this lolll

    • r

      The 4x example only applies if the fast food worker only creates and sells one item per hour. If you sold 2 burgers every hour, the employment portion of the food cost would only be 1/2. Guess what happens when you have “Billions and Billions Served…”? Take your time, think slowly.

      Other articles have mentioned that doubling the minimum wage would increase fast food costs to the customer by less than 5%…but don’t let facts get in the way of your pursuit of more money at others’ expenses, because it is just that type of greed which caused this inequality to begin with.

      • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

        If the fast food worker is only selling one item…. he is sent home. He still has all of his bills to pay, except the dollar bills.
        The CEO’s pay won’t go down till at least the next “quarter”.
        That’s a quarter of a year…….
        Over 90 days……..

    • Step

      The cost of a product isn’t the same cost that the producer gets an hour. lol
      If you make $21,000 a week in a restaurant (which I believe is the average for a McDs store if I’m not mistaken) and you have 30 employees making $7.25(maybe a few dimes higher)/hour that won’t mean that those 30 employees collectively will had made roughly all of that $21,000/week.
      At first you might look at that and say, “well the workers get ~41% of what is made.” The more collective the money becomes (chains of stores) and the more varying in the sizes of those stores the lower the percentage actually ends up becoming in the overall perspective of things. One thing people will say about McDs when you bring up wages is the fact that majority stores are franchises. Yep and those franchises are charged and are typically corporations themselves that own several stores themselves and run just like a mini-corporate McD’s.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kug.wilkins Paul Wilkins

    No one deserves a certain wage. You work hard and make more, or you work just enough to survive. Mediocrity should not be rewarded.

    • anon

      Except we don’t live in a world where hard work pays the most, we don’t even live in a world where innovation is rewarded proportionately.

  • Let’s look at the real issue

    In my opinion, the point here is being missed. Many of you make the argument that if minimum wage tripled, the price of products would also triple, yielding a net change of roughly 0%. HOWEVER, that assumes that minimum wage is the only thing being altered. What if we bumped up minimum wage and, instead of companies increasing prices to compensate, reduced the payroll of the CEO’s who make over 380x (http://www.aflcio.org/Corporate-Watch/CEO-Pay-and-the-99/CEO-to-Worker-Pay-Gap) the amount of the average employee. I know this seems idealistic, but reducing this absurdly high wage gap (the highest in the world) is the most reasonable way to even out the distribution of wealth in America.

    • http://twitter.com/LOLatGOP LOLatGOP

      “the price of products would also triple, yielding a net change of roughly 0%”

      Not necessarily. Companies who took this route could be squeezed out in the market by companies who instead, shifted to the new reality by lowering CEO and other executive pay and provided more competitive prices than their counterparts who simply shifted the cost on to their products.

      http://vscdn.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/CEO_Worker-pay-ratio.jpg

      • kjgh

        Your reply is invalid. The original comment said the exact same thing as you, except they said “the price of products would also triple, yielding a net change of roughly 0%”, but they also said “HOWEVER”, implying there’s a different way to go about things so that doesn’t happen.

      • Step

        You clearly only read 1/3rd of that comment.

      • David Roberson

        Even if all the CEOs worked for free, the workers would only get about a .50 raise. $10m seems like a lot of money, but when divided to 10,000 people it becomes nothing. Just like a giant swimming pool seems like a lot of water, but when put into the ocean it is an insignificant drop. The reality of it is that individuals like you and I own stock in companies like Walmart and Mcdonalds. Short of just gangstering peoples 401k’s and stock holdings, you can’t redistribute the wealth in them. Most of the profits from a business don’t go to a CEO but the stockholders.

        • Anonyone

          Only??? Listen to yourself! I would kill for 50 cents more. That would mean I wouldn’t have to rely on government subsidies! And I’m in a working family bro. America has this perpetual belief that if someone is rich, it is because they earned it. Bullshit. You don’t “earn” a million dollar salary. You steal it from the people that are working for you. End of story.

          • David Roberson

            .50 wouldn’t get you off of government subsidies. That is only $20 a week. Get real. You use subsisdies because you can get them.

            You don’t earn subsidies, you steal them from your fellow citizens. The people who pay for them didn’t vote for them. People like you did.

            Maybe you should have gotten your life in order before you started a family.

            Burger flippers aren’t worth $15 an hour… how do they get that without stealing it from their customers?

            We have different beliefs on right and wrong. I am not rich, but I don’t believe the rich are the problem. My views are altruistic. I have empathy for others. Your views are selfish – you are only thinking of yourself.

          • Marty Lee

            50 cents an hour is $1083.00 a year. That is enough money to bar many working citizens from public assistance and save taxpayers from having to subsidize Walmart’s business model. The market cap. of Walmart is $246 billion. The company can afford to pay $10.00 an hour and more..

            Like most Americans, I have no stock in Walmart (What are you? A majority share holder?) Unlike most Americans, I have never spent a penny at McDonald’s..

            As for what ‘burger flippers’ are worth, they’re time is worth more than $15.00 and hour let alone their labor.

            Lastly, how can someone so “altruistic” as yourself be such a sanctimonious SOB?

          • Murphy

            I would certainly kick the shit out of you and that person
            sitting with you in that crap photo you posted. Smug, arrogant, – faggot. Again, people, this is where educated fools fail to utilize a chance to help those of lesser intellectual footing than you. Regardless of your own logic you fail miserably at grasping any notion of the majority working poor. The dumb ass comments you made about fast food workers, the dumb ass comments about food stamps, and my personal favorite – “I mean… seriously… what do you want for giving your minimum effort in return?” This is a good moment in time where I want to give thanks for comment sections. If I heard you in public saying this shit at a grocery or a restaurant, I wouldn’t even say hello – I would start
            swinging on you and anyone sitting with you. Hopefully, you’d have your children with you so I could give them another topic to bring up in therapy. I’m altruistic too. Afterwards, I’d pick you up off the floor and help you into an ambulance.

          • David Roberson

            Allow me to translate.. “I’m Murphy, I’m a 25 year old burger flipper and I make $7.75 because I quit every job I ever had and will never improve my lot because I am a loser. I talk big, but in real life I never put out because I know my 2 inch tadpole doesn’t produce the amount of testosterone to actually stand up and walk the walk. When I even consider speaking my mind in public, it turtles down even smaller and I get the urge to cry. Please… won’t someone give me $20 an hour so I can afford to pay for acne treatments that I have from eating stolen french fries while sobbing over a friar for the last 5 years. I hate being a virgin. I wish I had some way to express my frustration besides trolling on the internet or masturbating to family photos.”

          • Joseph

            Women have less testosterone, so Murphy must think they should work for little or even less. Murphy, stop thinking with your 2 inch tadpole, and use that brain. Besides, You will be the one masturbating to family photos if any female who uses their brain knows what you wrote. Don’t you know YOU are trolling the internet, already and proclaim your guilt to all?
            DOLLARS are Cloth/Paper, not precious or rare. “Do unto others as you would have done to you….” You deserve to be paid in rags, because you demand it, and think you are getting more, because you can point at someone with less. And surely you are too good for children, since they do not even earn the minimum. Please do not produce any offspring.

            There is a contract on every DOLLAR: “in GOD WE TRUST” We prove we do not trust God when we trade in uneven, unfair wages, or prices. When you want the same for others as yourself you begin to be fair, and equal. When you demoralize those with less, you support YOUR OWN SELF making less, and others taking advantage of you, because you approved it for others.
            Did you not know wage is from wager? It is a safe bet you work for cloth/paper with pictures of dead people. In fact, dead so long, they turned moldy green. “The wages of sin is death”.
            Murphy, because you take advantage of others you HAVE to be an advocate of such practice, or you would fall into a true depression instead of a false sense of well being. Don’t forget you work for rags, and you think that in itself is ok, just because your testes gave you more than the minimum. That gives you the right to make fun of everybody who you see as beneath you.
            Murphy you are an advocate of thieves and thieving, for you the Law will always be a stumbling block.

          • Joe

            My Bad! Whenever I typed MURPHY I meant DAVID ROB Our SON. Much apologies to MURPHY, although you could have said it without the cuss. I am reminded the word BLAME (and plaintiff) comes from the french word BLASPHEME’!!!!

          • Phillip Grant

            Mr David first of all don’t assume what some one does for a living. I currently making minimum wage working at a warehouse as a shipping and receiveing clerk if you look at the average payed person in shipping and receiving I am well underemployed. Due economic reasons millions are in the same boat. I have a college degree, but due to my injuries received in the military. I am way to much of a work men comp risk. So don’t be in ass and just try to be empathetic to other people’s blight. I support at the very least minimum wage should at the very least follow inflation.

          • Nathan

            Murphy, the fact that you respond that way tells me you really need to educate yourself. Dont be dumb and stupid bro. And they are right. Just do better for yourself and you will get better out of life. simple.

          • Danny

            Well when I was 25 years old I thought like you,Now I’m 59 years old and no one will hire me because of my age,then you have to go ask for help you call subsides,Tell that to big oil,and farmers they get subsidies to.

          • David Roberson

            How could you possibly not realize that you were going to get old? Why did you not plan for it? At 60 you should have a paid for house at least. How can you make it to 60 and have nothing to show for it? Incompetence or indifference. I can understand having hard times and failures, but you save what you can and press on. I’ll be retired by 50 with a paid for house and taking deductions penalty free from my 401k using SEPP. I’m not sure why people make life so much more complicated than it it. Make a goal, set up a plan that gets you to your goal, and go for it.

            Aside from that… why do you think that giving subsidies to big oil and farmers makes it OK for you to get subsidies? That is like saying I should get to murder people and rape people because the US government kills and rapes people around the world. That is an illogical and evil belief.

            No one should get subsidies using tax payer money. Not big business, not me, and not you.

          • Sasha Fox

            I honestly hope you or a member of your family gets cancer or a systemic degenerative disease so you can see first hand how life can s**t all over your perfectly laid plans and realize how little control you really have over the direction your life takes.

            I feel the same way about most people who don`t acknowledge or understand how privileged their lives are, and see it as a moral failing that other people didn`t get to be as lucky as they were, or think that their good luck is a sign that they`re superior to others.

          • David Roberson

            I’ve had people die from cancer. They didn’t die from minimum wage. How the people around me live is because they choose to live that way. I’ve never met anyone who was physically able at some point in their life that didn’t choose to live like they do. All they have to do is decide how well they are willing to live. Much like I have to decide how nice my yard will look. If I want it nice and green, I take care of it. What I don’t do is ignore my grass, let it die, and then tell my neighbor with a nice lawn that “Must be nice to have nice grass, you are so lucky.” Everything takes work. Some people aren’t willing to put the amount of work in to live a secure life. I accept this. They can certainly do whatever they want with their life but someone who goes through their entire life without buying a house or planning for the future is pretty ignorant. Most people don’t bother thinking about ‘the future’ until they are 40. They knew they were messing up, it wasn’t important to them. They knew it when they were 16 and skipped school to get high, they knew it when they were 18 and they didn’t go to college, they knew it at 20 when they were working at McD’s for minimum wage and still not bothering to go to work every day, they knew it when they got a good job but quit or lost it because the job wasn’t worth what they had to give up for it.

            The only privilege I have are the ones I give myself. I didn’t have rich parents, I didn’t marry into a rich family, nobody died and left me money, no free ride through college, no government grants or money. Everything I have came from sacrificing parts of myself to get them.

            It is a moral failing to not recognize why you are a failure. If you don’t care enough about your life to try then don’t expect anyone else to.

          • Nancy Collins

            Wow. is your shirt as brown as your nose?

          • Joe

            Its all subsidies, DR, It’s all artificial.
            NO ONE? How about looking out for those less fortunate than us? They need and deserve subsidies, but instead we give it to those poor millionaires.
            My Grandmother worked for decades at GM, but the OLD GM no longer exists, and a holding company gives her insurance that is far less than she paid for, union contracted for, and was legally bound to receive. The LAW contract was broken.
            GALATIANS 2:21

          • David Roberson

            Looking out for those less fortunate than yourselves is another way of saying that you are better than that group of people and have to support them because they are stupid/lazy/incapable. You might as well put them in a zoo and throw peanuts at them.

            Give your grandmother some money if it makes you feel better. I have no need to give your grandmother my money.

          • Joe

            And yet you have no problem in stating your opinions. You advocate putting those less fortunate in ZOOS!!!! Your opinion is that it is fine to steal from my grandmother if you are rich enough. She wasn’t stupid, nor lazy, nor incapable. Her work is in the seat covers of every Fisher body GM car for decades. You have sat in her handiwork, enjoyed her work, and yet you still are supporting the people who have stolen the healthcare she paid and worked for. I’ll bet I never saw your work, David. The people you support by your words bankrupted GM, and stole every promise they made. The ignition switches those GM bosses put into GM vehicles are causing deaths. They did it to save 50 cents! Think hard about the difference 50 cents makes, DAVID. It could be the difference between your own life, death, and salvation. I want you to have 50 more cents, David, but, you want to put us in zoos to throw things at.

          • David Roberson

            I made the argument against zoos. What is a zoo? A zoo is a cozy place where animals who cannot take care of themselves in the wild are kept, fed, and given medical care. They have no responsibility for themselves because they are incapable of being responsible for themselves.

            All the things you support amount to what is essentially a zoo. Government housing? Check. Government food? Check. Government money? Check. Why do you hate the poor and think them to be incapable of taking care of themselves?

            Your grandma made cars that kill people when they get in accidents while demanding an unreasonable wage to screw a bolt in that forced companies to close down, cut the number of workers, raise the cost of vehicles, and finally move overseas because the vehicle cost had risen so high that other countries undercut us by thousands of dollars in cost all the while supporting Democrat presidents who sent jobs overseas.

            Why do you hate the poor?

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            A ZOO is a place where Animals are kept not people. From gk. ZOION which is related to animal life, and Zoological

            It is close relation to the word SOUL. Animal is related to the word Anima, which means soul. Compare the name Zoe or Zoey.
            Animals don’t have souls, they ARE souls, I am trying to save your own soul David, while you throw peanuts at Grandmas, belittle the work of others and won’t even give the rest of us 50 cents! Christ died for our sins, and Judas sold him out for 30 pieces of silver….. Our money is paper. If you are going to bargain with souls (your own), I suggest doing it for more than green paper with the pictures of dead people on it. They are so dead they are moldy green.
            Got a MORTGAGE? Mort = death + Gage = a wager or pledge. In fact all our wages are wagers.
            The word DOLLAR, from Joachimsthaller, is related to the name Dolores. Both from Latin, mean Pain, Anguish, and Sorrow. You are right Dave, you earned the Dollars you receive. I’ll wager you worked for a piece of paper. David Rob our son, indeed.

          • Joe’s Grandma

            A zoo is a prison filled with animals exploited for profit. The animals are so miserable the staff have to trick them into mating, or do surgery because the animals can’t wait for death and would not bring offspring into this world under those conditions, despite the “cozyness”.
            David, why don’t you move to a cozy zoo so we can throw peanuts at you? I am too nice to do that. Even if you sicken me, my love is greater than your hate and selfishness.
            And David, You do pay my social security and medicaire checks every month. I wouldn’t need medicare if GM would pay for the insurance they promised me. I never turned down overtime in 34 years, and earned everything I have, and everything that was legally stolen from me. I hadn’t even visited a doctor until I retired, and it turned out a chemical I used to do my job caused me cancer. I had to lose my leg. They never minded taking the money out of my check, but when it came time to pay my insurance bill, GM stopped putting the money in. A dollar is a promissary note. A broken promise. That GM is a whole different corporation under the LAW, but in truth, it is run by the exact same people, in the same factories, and towers.

          • David Roberson

            Joe, you mean like the zoo the Democrats built using welfare to control the masses and keep them in power?

          • IprefertobeAnonymous

            Why does the old GM not exist? When a company goes under who do you think should honor their contracts?

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            I would not kill for 50 cents more, Dave. $20 a week means an extra meal – at a restaurant – stimulating the economy ( buying a meal that would not have been purchased, or maybe a little more heat in a cold winter).
            Now Dave, why do you continue to make excuses for the ten million dollar CEO, but deny your own neighbors (AMERICA at large), an extra meal? Your math is good, but your heart is too small.

            Because of your relentlessness, here is the etymology of YOUR NAME:
            DAVID: well Beloved. compare to JOE (BELOVED), AMY/AMI (friend/BELOVED).
            ROBERSON: The son of robbers.
            ROB: From middle english, from old french “rober”, german origin, related to reave.
            REAVE: to steal, to rob something by force.
            YOUR NAME MEANS: WELL BELOVED ROBER. And maybe that explains why you care more for thieves than neighbors.
            I say this because I love my neighbor as much as myself.

          • David Roberson

            A 50 cent raise is not going to stimulate the economy. Raising the cost of labor raises the cost of all products that rely on labor. It doesn’t change anything.

            I am not making excuses for CEOs, I am telling you facts. Simple facts that you refuse to believe because you have a preconceived notion that everyone is holding you down because you can’t accept that you just don’t care enough to make a life for yourself that is worth living.

            There is no one who thinks that is what the name Roberson comes from. My name is pronounced ROW BER SON. It is a misspelling of Robertson based on the phonetic sound of the name. It literally means Son of Robert. My name is Scottish and is MacRaibeirt in Gaelic. It is synonymous with the clan Donnachaidh. Duncan was Robert’s father. I know the day and year my ancestor came to America, why, and from what city.

            You would think that having a name that ends in “etymology” that you might have some tiny amount of knowledge of it. Alas, this is not the case. You are a blithering idiot.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            So…….. You suggest your ancestors were illiterates who spelled their name wrong, and you followed that mistake for how long knowing what you know? You live in your own private Idaho.
            My earliest ancestors were 1)Abraham Bessent, 7 years a slave
            and the 2) Warren family who came on the Mayflower to Plymouth colony to escape religious oppressors.
            Please look up their descendant JOSEPH WARREN who died at “Bunker Hill” so that you could be “FREE” He was told that “Generals don’t fight, so, His only official act as Major General was to demote himself to private so that he could fight with his neighbors, not against them for the bank and crown of England.
            The entire Bunker Hill monument is devoted to him. He was replaced by G. Washington and John Hancock, in militia and congress. As a physician he doctored the Adams’ and Quincy’s families among others. He sent his brother to start the tea party, and told Paul Revere to ride, and how to light the North church. After his death Benedict Arnold supported the Warren family because Congress would not. His brother founded Harvard Medical school. Revere id’d J Warren’s body by the teeth Revere had fashioned. Without my ancestors we would have no U S of A to freely discuss topics like minimum wages.

          • David Roberson

            LOL.

            JOEY’s ancestor built the USA all by himself. What a joke this guy is.

            Your ancestor was supported by a person who was executed for being a traitor even according to your own history.

            My wife is related to Obama.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Joseph Warren died so we could be free.
            Jesus died for our sins. Neither were paid for their sacrifice, nor was it expected, nor promised. I appreciate what they did for US.

            The people who killed them all got paid. They even gambled for Jesus’ clothes (for profit).

          • I.P. Freely

            She looks just like Obama. Enjoy your Obama mama! Have relations with her.

          • Brenda Smith

            People who need help from DSS aren’t stealing from tax payers, the companies they are working for are. Your tax money is helping companies like Walmart be able to pay their employees less.

          • Brenda Smith

            David Roberson you miss the reason why our president Franklin D. Roosevelt started a minimum wage. He did it to insure that all working people earn a living wage. In the year 2015 $15 an hour just isn’t that much money. You would bring home around $480 a week and that would be enough to furnish you with a very modest life style. The truth is pay across the board needs to go up. They have had their price increases, now it is time to pass it down to the people that are working and making that profit possible in the first place. As to people working in fast food, how many burgers are they turning out a day? I don’t have an exact number, but I am sure it is high. In other words their work equals profit to the owner of the company and it’s stock holders.

          • Benjamin Mulroney

            “The people who pay for them didn’t vote for them. People like you did.”

            nonsense. the poor are more likely to not be voting at all. those voting for candidates who support programs for the poor are middle class and even wealthy individuals who have a little bit of concern for people in different situations. that is what empathy is.

          • Unbreakable

            It seems to me that you have empathy for the very wealthy minority while overlooking the very real problems of the much poorer majority that is supposed to be running the country, if the country functioned as it was originally intended to. You’ve been brainwashed by the rich. Unfortunately, you are not alone. There are millions like you. Most people are easily manipulated and the people with money and power use this to their advantage.

          • IprefertobeAnonymous

            If he makes $15 and hour guess who will start getting a chunk of it? The government. So in reality that .50 and hour he would “kill for” will actually go right back to Uncle Sam.

          • Phillip Grant

            An extra $20 a week would go further then not having an extra $20. I make a little over $8 an hour. I don’t have food stamps. I do have Medicaid as my employer does not offer any benefits. I have a degree. The economy is still slowly recovering and still very volatile. Not everyone flipping bugers is a deadbeat, some of them lost there jobs via layoffs and needed to survive. I do not agree with a $15 but a least $11 for inflation.

          • Brenda Smith

            Simply amazing how many people do not understand that our president Franklin D Roosevelt started a minimum wage to insure that all working people were paid a decent living wage. If you pay taxes you are helping to pay the wages of every person that works for a company that doesn’t pay a living wage.

          • MiMg

            FIRST of all, people getting assistance are NOT “stealing”, they DESERVE the benefits because OUR representatives passed the laws that said they DESERVE to receive them!

          • alex

            hahaah Anonyone, CEO only has less then 100 yr to live their life, however at the end of their life they sold their soul for the money and they will surely pay in the next life.

          • Joe

            Whether we work or not, It is always a government subsidy. Food Stamp or Dollar it is still cloth/paper.
            IRONY: Downtown there is poor man worrying that he doesn’t have enough money.
            Not far away, there is a rich man worrying he doesn’t have enough money.
            Who is more likely to take advantage of the other?

          • David Roberson

            Joe, I am against fiat money. However, you have no point and fiat money existing or not existing has nothing to do with subsidies being wrong. A man is a man. A man should be able to sell his labor for what he believes it is worth to him. He should be able to keep whatever he trades his labor for. Whether that be a piece of cloth that’s only real value is in the belief of that cloth, a pie, or a piece of rock.

          • Joe

            IT IS ALL FIAT MONEY. Fiat means manufactured or artificial.
            Instead of what you suggest, we have THE Big Boss Man buying our labor for whatever he is willing to pay, and less benefits than we got in the past.

          • David Roberson

            You are arguing something that has absolutely nothing to do with out discussion. You know that, right? We are arguing about how minimum wage affects the economy in the system that we participate in. Fiat money has no place in this discussion as it has nothing to do with minimum wage except in that fiat money is easy to inflate and causes eroding purchasing power for those who have it. It doesn’t change what minimum wage increases do to prices. The same thing would happen if we were using gold coins.

          • Joe

            You brought up FIAT/artificial/manufactured money, not me, but you have proved my point. The minimum wage is also FIAT, otherwise only GOD or nature would affect it. Someday, you will be like that old guy you berated, because his FIAT wage from decades ago doesn’t have the purchasing power of the day he earned it.

          • MiMg

            actually, we are talking about how the MInimum Wage NEEDS to be RAISED, not at all what you said

          • MiMg

            long story short, everyone deserves a living wage

        • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

          i think you should be introduced to the PETER principle. It states that we will all be promoted until we are worthless. The PETER principle shows that the presidents, CEO’s, and other managers are worthless. The higher up in a company, the less you are needed (and the less you work). The fact is that lower wage workers are the most important part of our economy, and the boss is useless, doesn’t produce anything, and will not do the work they demand of others. The Ford family (for instance) doesn’t make any cars, doesn’t design them, won’t work on them. And even if your boss could do your job, they will not in fact, do the work.
          Furthermore, I say no one would have a job unless their boss was making a profit of of your labor, we are all being taken advantage of by the moneychangers ( the only people Jesus got angry with), who sit at their climate controlled bench/bank, counting up their sins against their neighbors.
          And worst of all, people like David Rob our sons, who joins with his oppressor to condemn people who make less than him, or want to make as much as him, and insult their lives, and make excuses to keep other Humans in a state where he can look down upon them.

          If you think this sounds communist, you ought to know that community and communism were the same word before Karl Marx appropriated it. The truth is that those against it are really against their own community!

          • David Roberson

            The Ford family created the Ford company and brought cars to the masses as well as really being the one who pushed assembly lines into usage and raised the standard of living for the entire human race. Ford probably did more to make the lives you and I live the easiest in the history of humanity than any other person who has ever lived. The people who run the Ford company are the ones who move the strings that allow all the people that word for Ford to do the things they do. Without them, who would make the decisions? People who put bolts into blocks for $25 an hour? What a joke, the Ford company would disappear immediately. The very fact that Ford didn’t need bailed out proves that the Ford family is doing their job very well – obviously better than the workers/voters who voted for the government that caused the economic collapse.

            Jesus is an imaginary character in a book. Who cares what he did?

            You just admitted that you are Communist. We all know how Communism ends up in every country that has tried it. With tens of millions of deaths from famine, plague, poverty, and governments just outright murdering people while oppressing anything that isn’t “good” for society. Your idea of perfection is a zoo where no one has any responsibility or use. They exist solely to exist. This is a very evil moral position. More shit cake if you ask me.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            On Paper, those who promote the following believe:
            Democracy is perfect
            Communism is perfect
            Monarchy is perfect
            Fascism is perfect
            Socialism is perfect
            But in practice, every system is imperfect. Each system depends on taking advantage of the workers, while the guys in suits, and their police force, and lawyers do as little as possible, and reap every benefit, and are admired by the feeblest of mind, who want to be just like them.
            This is not a perfect country, and American Democracy borrows from Communism, Fascism, and Socialism anywhere it wants.
            Jesus died for our sins, persecuted and crucified by the Roman government that the U.S. is based on. If you want a source outside the Bible read Josephus, the historian.
            At this sight you will find 3 other sources additionally: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/nonchristianaccounts.html

          • David Roberson

            Finally, something we agree on. All those things are perfect on paper. Fortunately, I don’t support any of them. American was never intended to be any of those things you listed though. You know we aren’t a democracy, right? We are a Constitutional Republic. They aren’t the same thing.

            I am not a Christian and I don’t believe in illogical stories. I find it unlikely that Christianity is the correct religion if there is a god.

          • Joey Etymology

            I am a Christian, and Christians were originally a community that shared everything for the welfare of the community. We live by Jesus’ words, which include “Do unto others as you want done to yourself”, Perhaps you prefer the earlier statement by Confucius, “do not do unto others what you do not want done to yourself”. Jesus also talked about fair wages.
            Muslim literally means to “submit to God”. We are all children of Abraham. What we do to others, we do to our own distant family.
            We live by Jesus’ words, and anyone who has studied the Bible will find rewards and redundant Logic within the scriptures, but for those who insist, Christ is but a stumbling block, as he promised. If I did not experience miracles perhaps I would also be eager for the green paper. I am more interested in everybody having enough from a government whose sole duty is to protect US, but now they are doing the opposite, or just protect the moneychangers.
            Jesus really only taught ONE prayer, The Pater Noster which includes …”Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors” And if the debtors will not forgive our debts, they will not be forgiven.
            We often fail in our attempts, we are humans after all.
            I do not believe anyone needs money to do Good. It is free to do Good. I fear that money is evil; if it is good, why deny ENOUGH to anyone. Would you keep clean air or water from anyone? Did your boss or government make the air and water?
            I believe God has set things up so that those who claim to own things may be damned (/banked), and they have locked away thier evil in a prison (bank) and claimed it as goodness. My Good is in heaven, and not tied to trading “in God we trust”. For if there is not enough food, heat, or shelter, there may be violence. There is enough food, and water for everyone. If money was so good, why did Judas, the betrayer hold it? I refer you to Mathew 19:16 to 30, where Jesus tells a rich man to “sell all that you have and give it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Way better than money in the bank. The way to God is not a highway, but the road less traveled. I have taken the road less traveled, and it has made all the difference. I will be a slave of God, but I will not be a slave to unfair wages.

            Now if you do not believe this is a country under God, I refer you to a map of Washington DC. It is a diamond shape taken from the states of Virginia and Maryland.
            It is in fact the land of (the) Virgin Mary, or Virginia Maryland. I can see how this could be in deference or reverence. Either way…..

          • David Roberson

            Problems with the bible:

            1) God mass murdered everyone on earth. This is worse than Stalin, HItler, and Mao together.

            2) If you rape a girl, you have to marry her in the bible.

            3) Slavery is promoted in the bible. Peter 2:18

            4) Psalm 137:9 “Happy shall they be who takes your little ones and dash them against the rocks.”

            5) Timothy 2:12

            6) Gays are an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

            It becomes obvious why you believe the things you do. You have no common sense. You have absolutely no wish to believe things that are founded in fact. Your entire life is built around fairy tales.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Satan uses scripture to his own device. I hope you read the other versus of Peter 2: especially 2:1, 2:6-8 …”it belongs to their destiny” is a warning, sir. (which I already quoted to you without listing it), 2:11 and 12 may have been written as a specific scripture TO YOU, Beloved, Dave. Peter 2:18 does not advocate slavery, but acknowledges it’s existence, and gives hope to those in bondage, as Christ was, and the Jews were. I hope you also read the rest of the chapter after your quote, especially 2:19. but I am sure you began/ended with verse 18.

            Psalm 137:9 Totally misquoted, once again, did you read the rest of the chapter? It is a cry against the oppressors who enslaved the Jews. The overseer demands a song 137:3, and that they be joyous (in slavery). The song the despoiler receives is a cry for vengeance, and a warning that it will be a great joy to the man that kills Babylon’s children, and that Jerusalem is “ahead of my joy”. (Jeru-)SALEM/Shalom means PEACE. Peace be with you, even you, my oppressor.
            Timothy 2:8 ……”be free of anger and dissension.”
            Timothy 2:5 “And the truth is this…….. (Jesus) gave himself as a ransom to all. 2:12 is worthless without 2:9 especially. This section is for faithful women. It tells woman to dress in good works, not like some costly prostitute, dressing to be worshipped in place of God.
            Leviticus 18 also tells you not to copulate with your mother, family, or in laws, but YOU can do those things Dave, and see if that does you any good, Lie with men if you wish, it is not God’s wish. Homosexual relations create no children, only man + woman = children/life. Homosexual relations do not produce life. Homosexual relations do not produce life, and men should also not dress like a woman prostitute. However, Leviticus is the LAW of Moses, not Christ; LEVI meaning LAW. We have a new covenant as Christians, but you do not want to understand. You seek to be my oppressor.
            Abomination means disgusting. Your free will may allow you to be an abomination. That doesn’t mean I am interested in going your way. The wages of sin is death. Oh yeah, raise that minimum wage!

          • TehHerpDerpLeft

            Problems with your philosophy:

            1) God knows ultimate right from wrong, Hitler, Stalin and Mao did not. If He deems the world to be evil and deserving of purging, He is correct in doing so.

            2) No. Rape isn’t “allowed” in the bible. If you have sex with someone, you commit adultery if you do not marry them.

            3) Slavery isn’t promoted in that verse. Only an idiot would think “be reverent to those in authority” means all authority is promoted.

            4) That verse is talking about how corrupt Babylon is. Do you not understand what context is? No, of course you don’t. Your biblical knowledge is based on a “gotcha” list that some atheist posted on the internet.

            5) Again, context. Paul is telling Timothy what he allows in his church because of the culture. To go against the culture could cause problems. This does not mean it is black and white, women can’t teach or have authority, Paul is simply saying that’s how he runs his church.

            6) No. Not gays. Learn to read. Homosexual acts are an abomination, not the people committing the abomination.

          • Nancy Collins

            Atheism without humanism is nihilism. You are as much a part of the problem as the religious fanatics you despise. Being a libertarian toady is neither liberty or freedom, it is merely willful ignorance in the service of the Robber Barons whose favor you think you can curry.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            You didn’t have to tell anyone you are not a Christian. it’s so completely obvious. Your God is Mammon.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Maybe Henry Ford, or Edsel Ford designed and/or worked on their vehicles, but I would like to see a picture of a “Ford” working on a Ford car in the almost (3/4) a century since Hank and Edsel passed.

        • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

          Here is the fallacy of your argument. You are for the (1)single boss making 10 million dollars, and against any (10,000) people getting an extra 50 cents. David, please refuse your next raise, because 50 cents an hour “BECOMES NOTHING”. Now put your statements to the test of walking the walk you talk.

          • David Roberson

            What does taking a raise that I earn due to my performance and is freely given and forcing people to pay more for the same thing have to do with each other? Nothing? What?

        • Private_Eyescream

          Math Time!
          “Even if all the CEOs worked for free, the workers would only get about a .50 raise. $10m seems like a lot of money, but when divided to 10,000 people it becomes nothing.”

          $10,000,000 / 10,000 people = $1000 per person per year.
          Average work week = 40 hours. 52 weeks per year minus 2 weeks for Holidays = 50 work weeks. 40 hours x 50 weeks = 2000 work hours per year (not counting vacation pay if applicable or bonuses).
          $1000 / 2000 Work_Hours = $0.50 per hour pay raise.

          GOOGLE[ “The Tragedy of the Commons” ]

        • Brenda Smith

          Exactly. Just cutting the pay of the CEO wouldn’t be enouh. The pay of upper management would need to be cut and profits to share holders.

        • MiMg

          David, it’s not just the CEO’s income that needs to be lowered, it’s everyone who makes 6, 7, 8, 9 figure incomes in the company!

      • Joe

        Then it is no better or worse. I say let’s try and see.

      • Daniel Perry

        What you fail to understand is basic economics. Why are CEO’s so expensive?? CEO’s wages are simple supply and demand. The problem here is you assume anyone can be a CEO or rather all CEO’s are equally the same. If you choose to pay a CEO a below market value he will simply leave for another company. You might think oh well let’s hire another one. But like in the case of Eric Schmidt if you let him walk there is no one like him to replace which means your company will start performing worse. People think that CEO’s don’t do anything but believe me a good CEO can make a HUGE difference in a company hence why they are paid so well. Meanwhile If I fire someone who stocks boxes for a living I can replace him with anyone else in the world. It is all supply and demand. If you want to be demanded more acquire the necessary skills to be sought after. What you people are saying is everyone needs to be paid well.

        I will give another example who should I pay more the Taxi driver that got me to the hospital or the Doctor who performed my heart surgery? Which is more valuable to your life and which is harder to do? They should not be paid equally or even close to it. Sorry that’s the way life is if you don’t like work hard and acquire skills. If Ben Carson can be great then anyone can or if John Rockefeller can be successful anyone can. The guy had no education and was forced to care for his brothers and sisters and MOM at the age of 14!!!! Who here was put in a worse situation? No one so stop complaining and make it happen.

    • Geno

      Instead of being socialists we could just not support companies that pay their CEOs ridiculous amounts and start supporting companies that treat their employees with respect, there are some out there still, they are just getting stomped on because of people supporting places like Walmart and their monopolies.

      • Doug

        You make it sound so simple. Like it’s so easy to find out which companies treat their employees well. As consumers in the US we buy so many things on a daily basis, from gas to coffee, and we don’t have time or luxury to research every company we buy goods from.

        • Burque

          While it’s true that we might not have the time to research every place we shop, a big step would be to stop shopping at Walmart. They used to be a good company back in the day. Not anymore.

        • Joe

          if there was some report of evil by a company, they would not fix the evil. That company sends out PR to tell us lies about how good they are.
          Remember the BP oil spill? They made a commercial about how they “fixed” the oil spill, rather than the cause of the oil spill. Typical Public Relations.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Public RELATIONS most literally means to “screw the people”, those Fu__ing people.

      • v7c7ous

        Good luck. Almost every company in the world is owned by one of 10 parent companies such as pepsi n whatnot. It is impossible to realistically NOT deal with those companies. Google “who owns who” n itl b the 1st image to show up for ya…

      • Danny Ciliberto

        I work at whole foods and they made it so the CEOs and whatnot can’t make more than 19x the lowest paid employee and they do so many charities and stuff like that. They treat they’re employees well, they should make more companies like that with a salary cap set at a reasonable number for the CEOs and the lower paid workers

        • DP

          You do know that physicians make more than that compared to a medical aide, right?

    • cpid

      If minimum wage was raised it wouldn’t really affect the economy in a negative way. Australia’s minimum wage is 17 dollars per hour and they still have the dollar menu.

    • Danny Ciliberto

      That would never happen a lot of those CEOs have their hands in the governments pocket and vice versa therefor the government would never make them except less so they can pay people what they deserve. This country is becoming more and more like the communist countries that we all hate.

    • David Roberson

      You know how stupid that comment is? CEOs average about 15 million or so in earnings. If you took that entire 15 million and split it among 10,000 people, they would get a whopping .72 raise an hour.

      Walmart’s CEO made what.. 35 million last year? 1.4 million workers in America. Lets assume there are a couple more people who can be trimmed considerably down there. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and only giving 1 million people money from it since undoubtedly some make good money there already. That is only $35 per worker at Walmart based only on the CEO. Let’s call it $100 per worker to be nice. That is .13 an hour. Big friggin whoop.

      You know what would increase the poor workers real wages? Lower taxes. They give many state government 7%(.56 an hour at $8), then the federal government takes a chunk, then they pay $.50-2 a gallon for gas taxes, then they pay hundreds of dollars for plates and registration.

      Rich people aren’t the problem. Expectations are. You can’t work a mediocre job and then get mad that you have an apartment, a car, a cell phone, a computer, a tablet, food, and electricity. I mean… seriously… what do you want for giving your minimum effort in return?

      Even if everyone made the same exact per year to start, there would still be poor and rich people in the world. That is just the nature of humans. You are trying to fix a problem that isn’t really a problem.

      People are 100x’s better off at the bottom spectrum than they were in the 1960s.

      • Terrance Callme-g Wilson

        That’s only the CEO. You should include the CFO, COO, all V.P.’s directors and board members to get a more accurate number. For instance, the 6 Walmart heirs make as much money as the bottom 40% of the country combined.

        • David Roberson

          First, let me point out the obvious falsehoods in your post. The 6 Walmart heirs have a worth of about 90 billion. They don’t make that a year, that is their total cumulative worth. Even if they made that per year, spread among 36m people(40% of workforce), 90 billion is $2,500 each. Even if the bottom 40% averages $10, that would me $360M per hour. That is $2.9B per day or $115B per week.

          You repeated something that you didn’t understand that was likely told to you by someone else who didn’t understand it. I used facts to prove your entire argument wrong because it was simply not true.

          Now, the biased story your friends friends friend read and then told to your circle was this: 6 Walton heirs have a net worth of more than the lower 40% of the population. While this is true from a purely numbers perspective, it is biased because of this:

          If I have $100,000 in cash or stocks and I made $100,000 a year, I’d be relatively wealthy compared to many. However, If I just bought a $500,000 house. My net worth would be -$400,000.

          If you were unemployed, had no debt, and a $10 bill, you would have a net worth better than the lowest 25% of the population because that is what percent has a negative net worth. You wouldn’t argue that you were better off than the person in the previous example though because net worth doesn’t work that way.

          Not only was your information wrong, but the idea behind it was also.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            Report:Walmart
            Walmart: America’s real ‘Welfare Queen’ – Daily Kos
            http://www.dailykos.com / story / 2012 / 10 / 10 / 1141724 / -Walmart-fuels-inequalit… – 322k -similar pagesOct 10, 2012 … Walmart earns over $15 billion per year in pure profit andpays its ….. and after one medical emergency that Medicare doesn’t fully cover, I am …
            Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public …
            http://www.forbes.com / sites / clareoconnor / 2014 / 04 / 15 / report-walmart-workers-c / – 141k – similar pagesApr 15, 2014 … Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized …
            Apologies, But Welfare Payments To Employees Are Not Subsidies …
            http://www.forbes.com / sites / timworstall / 2013 / 11 / 13 / apologies-but-welfare-pa / – 186k -similar pagesNov 13, 2013 … The two biggest welfare queens in America today are Wal-Mart and … will pay as little as they can for anything in order to maximise their profits.
            How McDonald’s and Wal-Mart Became Welfare Queens – Bloomberg
            http://www.bloomberg.com / news / 2013-11-13 / how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-m… – 101k -similar pagesNov 13, 2013 … Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest private sector employer, is also the … Why are profitable, dividend-paying firms receiving taxpayer subsidies?

          • What is welfare?

            The rich LOVE welfare….. but only their own.

          • DP

            Since a lot of people seem fixated on the idea that empathy for others or some inherent right of humans means that employers should pay everyone enough money to live comfortably on, let me explain to all those people, that we have a system in place where workers who are not paid a “living wage” will then receive government benefits to bring them to the income level society has chosen through the political process. A society is free to decide that it wants to guarantee some standard of living to its citizens. It should not however, impose that through forcing artificially high wages upon employers.

          • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

            A dollar bill is only a piece of paper. ALL of the wages are artificial (man made), at any time they could be raised or lowered in a man made process. It is all artificial, the paper dollars are artificial, the minimum wage is artificial, The CEO’s wage is artificial. God doesn’t print money, and it doesn’t grow on trees, it is trees!
            EMPLOYEE means to be used/ implicated, from Latin. Essentially, (according to some dictionaries) a slave. And, yes, employment is also artificial.

      • Jared Owen

        Okay, well, I think profit sharing is better. The point of capping the CEO pay is to force the CEO to raise wages for their workforce, which might not always work, so we need a combination of a pay cap on the CEO, and profit sharing of at least 80% total profits equally among employees. Walmart made a total of 17 billion dollars in profits in 2013, 15 billion in profits in 2014. Their workforce barely survived in poverty, and generally required government assistance, which is unacceptable Walmart is legally allowed to own slaves, and I will not tolerate it.

        Legislation is in the process for a future profit sharing federal mandate, and required by law vacation, which will most likely be passed in 2016 unless Obama decides to use his executive action. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

        • David Roberson

          I guess you have to know what the words “poverty” and “slave” mean before you use them correctly. No one in America is in poverty. I would argue that the only slavery in the country is that many of us are forced to work without pay for the federal government.

          You don’t understand what profits are.

          Walmart’s Gross Profit was 24.6B. They paid 8.1B in taxes. That is $4,050 per worker in taxes.

          They had a total of just under 15B total profit. We are in concurrence up to this point. Here is where we diverge.

          You make the case that 80% of Walmart profits should go to the workers. Well… what percent of it goes to the workers? Do you actually know? Also, what percent of gross sales are going to the workers already? Do you know? No? How can you make an assertion like that if you don’t know the answer already?

          Here is a little math for you. 1.2 million workers x $12.83(average hourly pay for Walmart) x 30 hours x 52 weeks is 22B. Add 500 million in healthcare and another 500 million on other benefits(10% off, stock purchase, ect.) then remember that many Walmart associates have 401k in Walmart stock. Something like 15B in stock that adds another 500m in dividends as well as a matching 6% for 401k stock purchases. Yes, Walmart has matching 401k plans(to 6%) and stock purchases. Walmart doesn’t have a giant pile of money where they throw 15B every year. They have to give it out in dividends to people like you and me who own their stock in our 401ks. To put it in perspective for you. Associates are getting 30-35k billion and Walmart itself is getting less than 10B to keep as cash reserves and for it’s big time stock owners like the Walton family.

          The simply fact is that Walmart is already amazingly close to your 80% number.

    • Joe

      You suggest it would be a net change of 0%, but the rewards of the rich would be greater. The profits would be 300% using your 3 times base.
      Better solutions, more equal to all would be:
      1 An equal tax credit (say, just above the poverty line.
      2 Rules that the more you make, the more taxed, rather than rich people paying much lower tax %.
      3 a living wage.
      4 an equal wage.
      5 No one makes more than 10 times the lowest paid employee.

      • David Roberson

        But that 300% increase in profit doesn’t buy anything else. All you do is drag everyone from the middle class on down to the same level. This doesn’t fix anything.

        1) No problem. This is what is proposed in a flat tax quite often. Simply give a tax rebate to everyone that makes the poor pay no taxes. A pretty simple setup.

        2) What do you think “progressive taxation” is? That is what we have now. People who make poverty wages already pay much less than those who make more.
        3) A living wage is an opinion that is different for each person. I would argue they are already payed a living wage.

        4) An equal wage is an opinion that is different for each person. How can everyone make an equal wage except in communism where there are no wages?
        5) So, if I start a business single handedly and it grows and I hire 50 people at $10 an hour, I can only make $100 an hour no matter how many jobs I create and how much more stress I take on to provide these people with jobs? What kind of motivation is there to accomplish anything if the government forces new businesses to intentionally fail?

        How about nobody puts 10x’s less effort into society and their jobs than the next person?

        • Joe

          i would not assume that anyone puts 10 x less effort at the bottom. And I can proof that rich pay less in taxes.

          http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/economy/buffett-secretary-taxes/

          At least Warren Buffet has a heart bigger than his wallet. Even the rich get it sometimes.

          You on the other hand assume a (1)flat tax is the same as a “equal tax break” to all. The truth is (2) The poor pay less dollars, but a higher percentage of their income, and don’t have the boucoup bucks after taxes of the rich (that is why they are poor) less is still less more is still more in the real world.
          (3) I would call YOUR “living wage” a poverty wage or minimum wage., or even a living in poverty wage.
          (4) even the communists pay in paper, not silver or gold. Put an equal wage on the Ballot and put it to the people, you will find you are in the 1% in opinion. The communists do not pay an equal wage.
          (5) If you started a business “single handedly” you would not have any employees. But when you do, Yes, I think 10x is more than fair (Ben and Jerry rule). The stress is your choice, the government forcing failure is something you assume. Don’t hire anyone and do it all yourself! What do I care in your hypothetical business where you already plan to exploit your employees in your hypothetical world.

          • David Roberson

            That doesn’t prove anything. You are also arguing against a straw man. I am not arguing that the rich need to pay less. I am arguing that everyone needs to pay the same rate.

            (1) In flat tax, often everyone gets a tax break up to the poverty level. (2) The poor pay less dollars – correct but a higher percent of their income? 10% is 10% whether it is of $1 or $1,000,000. They would pay the same percentage of their income. You might look up the meaning of the word “percentage”.
            (3) What do you think minimum effort should give you in the way of a life? That is the real issue here.
            (4) Silver and gold are inconvenient to carry around. What was your point?
            (5) Says the person who will never open a business and create jobs for people to live off of.

            The beliefs that you hold end with a country like Greece. Falling apart. Why don’t you convert your state into a communist super paradise? Why are you wanting to destroy the entire country?

          • Joe

            I am all for changing my country into a community of Super Paradise, I think good people would support this. I fear the opposers.

            The Greeks began DEMOCRATIC rule, and they also warned us against rule by the rich or handsome.

            The Oracle once declared Socrates the wisest man among the Greeks. This led Socrates to say, “This one thing I know: I know nothing.” The bible says wisdom begins with fear of the Lord, Wise men say it begins when you admit you know nothing. Either way.

            Despite the desperate attempts of so many to prove that Jesus was not a historical figure, the fact is that many of the ancient oracles, the Sybils, prophesied of Jesus, as did the Druidic oracles. The Greek oracles did the same, some even announcing Jesus’ birth.

            The Sibylline Oracles were well respected by the Jewish and early Christian Fathers, who quoted them frequently and even published their own revised editions containing Judaeo-Christian prophecies and teachings for dissemination amongst the pagans. The Sibylline Oracles (1:381-388) include this prediction of the birth of Christ:

            “And then the child of the great God to men
            Shall come incarnate, being fashioned like
            The mortals on the earth. And he shall bear
            Four vowels, and the consonants in Him
            Are twice told; and the whole sum I name:
            For eight ones, and as many tens to these,
            And yet eight hundred will the name reveal
            To men who are given up to unbelief.”

            In the Greek language in which this prophecy was written, Jesus is spelled Iota, Eta, Sigma, Omicron, Upsilon, Sigma. The gematrial values are: Iota, 10 (vowel 1); Eta, 8 (vowel 2); Sigma, 200 (consonant); Omicron, 70 (vowel 3); Upsilon, 400 (vowel 4, line 384); Sigma, 200 (consonant, “twice told”, line 385); total, 888 (lines 386 and 387). This is but one greek oracle of Christ.

            Raise the minimum wage!

          • Joe

            (1), (2): If using my 10x pay for the boss, and DaveR’s hypothetical flat tax formula together, (let’s say again 10% tax for easy math calculations) the $10 employee wage is taxed at $1., he has $9, for his hour.
            The Boss’ $100 is taxed at $10, he has $90 for his bills. He can hire 9 more employees now. The employee cannot hire 1.
            It is the same percent of income but what is the percent of the outcome? There is also a good chance the boss bought the workers’ house(s), so he will get some more of the $9 (or some other boss). The bosses also own the stores, so they get the rest of the $9, back eventually.
            Dave is also driving down the low wage because of his own greed. He assumed the worker deserves little but $10. The lowest paid employee could make $100 or $1000 an hour, raising the boss’ pay to $1000 or $10000 an hour, respectively.
            If the 10x of the boss is not enough, Dave, how could the one tenth the worker receives possibly be enough?
            (3) The issue is from your assumption that workers do the minimum, but why do you assume this? You do not have any problem with the boss paying the MINIMUM. That is even if the worker does the minimum. You have a double standard, thatdestroys your own argument.
            (4) Yes, inconvenient, but at least I could take my gold and silver elsewhere to spend. US dollars Have no value in Tibet, or to aboriginals in Australia. They would call it paper.
            (5) Says the guy with Patty Hearst syndrome.

          • Joe

            I think “greece falling apart” is a metaphor for the failure of the west.

          • MiMg

            WHAT? The POOR need to pay the SAME rate as the RICH! Get real! If you are making 7$/hour you should NOT be paying the same rate as someone who owns 100 BILLION dollars!

    • IprefertobeAnonymous

      Government (and media) meddling created the 2008 crash that created the current lower-wage, part-time job market. Big companies, learned they could pay less and make more because people became so desperate for work. More unemployed people has meant wages have actually gone down. It’s supply and demand… Diamonds are worth so much because they are not common and hard to come by. We need a job market where workers are the same. More people working will create a market that will create higher wages. We need to encourage business to come back to this country, ,and create a booming job market where companies have a harder time filling jobs. The highest corporate tax rate in the world won’t do that.

    • youcantbeserious

      Thats not the way the world works. Dreaming is one thing. We live in reality.

    • yeshua

      lol distribution of wealth in america? the upper 1% has over 50% of all money in circulation, we receive crumbs, not even pocket change to these assholes, im sorry but it isn’t communism to have low wage workers to be able to live off there low wage job, but hey who cares, everyone in this shit hole rather worry about the big game, or the next church get together, truth is the majority of americans are so far out of touch with the reality of their situations that you couldn’t even begin to explain it to them. flat out pathetic

  • gerry busey

    im fairly certain the anonymous typing in ALLCAPS is certifiably insane. damn!

  • Dave McAnally

    This is what happens when sociologists attempt to meddle in economics as some kind of source of authority. We’ll ignore this author’s obvious disregard for the fact minimum wage is essentially a labor cost input (which is like, ignoring that the sun rises in the east I know) and focus on his so-called metrics. US Standard of Decency? Is this an economic metric? Please, tell me more about this index! I want to hear all about how a person in 1968 making minimum wage would feel the person in 2013 making minimum wage (who happens to have a cell phone an ipod and this “internet” thing) has such a greater standard of decency. I also see you’ve equated a higher minimum wage with higher productivity (a bold assertion). I suppose to you, the 1970’s/early-80’s auto industry was on the up and up and the Japanese had it all wrong right? Look dude, I appreciate that you have an audience of people who want to hear you blather on about how artificially propping up broke people will somehow make them wealthier, but proclamations like this from people in the educational world really should come with caveats or something. If you triple minimum wage, prices will triple. Nobody is any better off, you’ve just devalued what that person making minimum wage can actually go buy with their 21 dollars. And even then, he doesn’t care about mortgage or interest rates. He just wants to raise enough money to buy a bus ticket to burning man.

    • Jeff

      When economics is NOT meddled with by sociologists, all you end up with is a cost-efficient-but-technically-ineffecient society rife with greed, corruption, over-consumption, hate, fear and depression WELL beyond what “human nature” would otherwise dictate. You end up with oil companies tearing apart anything and everything to get to cost-efficient oil. You end up with corporations producing nothing except profits for shareholders, and things like lowering minimum wages and outsourcing jobs just comes from the fact that greed and indifference to human suffering is actually REWARDED in our current system. You end up with a 3-month lifespan on most consumer products, you end up with manufacturers DELIBERATELY DESIGNING THINGS TO FAIL, with little to no ability to repair or recycle goods.

      Fortunately, Dave, sociologists have a MUCH better understanding of REAL economics (not just supply&demand monetary economics but actual resource management) and continue to meddle enough to make sure that human beings are treated with some form of dignity. Is it not enough that millions of people have to compete for meaningless jobs and the uniformity that comes with them (mostly jobs which could be done by robots now anyway), you want them to not have the ability to afford to live respectably? I mean, have a look at the high paying jobs now anyway. The so-called “bettering yourself” concept to get paid more breaks down when you have bankers ruining lives with unethical tactics, lawyers constantly trying to circumvent the law with precedents and loopholes, doctors prescribing people with medication they don’t need because of kickbacks, people in marketing successfully brainwashing people into buying utter garbage that should never have been invented in the first place, and the list goes on and on and on and on. The people who get paid the most are actually the ones contributing the least to society, and the entire human race (for the most part). It’s time to re-think what you’ve been taught and have a decent look around before speaking about things you do not fully understand.

      • Brian

        You’ll never understand economics. If you did then you would know that greed is good. You are naive to a think economics has anything to do with supply and demand or graphs for that matter. Take a theoretical economics class and see what it is all about.

        It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. – Adam Smith

    • Guest

      When economics is NOT meddled with by sociologists, all you end up with is a cost-efficient-but-technically-ineffecient society rife with greed, corruption, over-consumption, hate, fear and depression WELL beyond what “human nature” would otherwise dictate. You end up with oil companies tearing apart anything and everything to get to cost-efficient oil. You end up with corporations producing nothing except profits for shareholders, and things like lowering minimum wages and outsourcing jobs just comes from the fact that greed and indifference to human suffering is actually REWARDED in our current system. You end up with a 3-month lifespan on most consumer products, you end up with manufacturers DELIBERATELY DESIGNING THINGS TO FAIL, with little to no ability to repair or recycle goods.

      Fortunately, Dave, sociologists have a MUCH better understanding of REAL economics (not just supply&demand monetary economics but actual resource management) and continue to meddle enough to make sure that human beings are treated with some form of dignity. Is it not enough that millions of people have to compete for meaningless jobs and the uniformity that comes with them (mostly jobs which could be done by robots now anyway), you want them to not have the ability to afford to live respectably? I mean, have a look at the high paying jobs now anyway. The so-called “bettering yourself” concept to get paid more breaks down when you have bankers ruining lives with unethical tactics, lawyers constantly trying to break the law with precedents and loopholes, doctors prescribing people with medication they don’t need because of kickbacks,

  • Pumpkinmedic

    Instead of being jealous of what a CEO makes, why don’t you get a skill, some motivation and a work history? I made minimum wage (at the time, it was $3.375) for exactly six weeks if my life. If you’re making minimum wage, you have no skills and no motivation. Wealth is earned, not redistributed. What the CEO of a company makes has no bearing on what your skills are worth to your employer.

  • Anon

    *To all the people that are saying product costs increase in proportion to labor cost* You are wrong. Labor cost are only a portion of the total product costs. Product costs would only grow in proportion to labor costs if EVERY SINGLE job was a minimum wage job. As it is now, if we doubled minimum wage every other non-minimum wage job would not pay twice as much…

  • Matt Harris

    Raising the minimum wage to $21 would absolutely destroy job creation and probably double or triple the unemployment rate. Terrible idea.

    • JPSnoopington

      Sal is thinking way too small. Why not make it $100 an hour? Isn’t that the lower end of baseball and football player salaries? We’re all entitled to that. Just like we’re entitled to 100% unemployment. Don’t worry, Obama will take care of us!

  • Envirobob

    We need to keep minimum wage low to reduce our environmental impact. If we let minimum wage rage people will have have more money to spend which will drive up consumption which will ultimately increase environmental degradation. Keep wages low means less consumption, less ability to provide for families which will in turn cause a reduced birth rate, which will in turn eventually result in a population decrease which will ultimately save our planet. In summary: low wage = save mother earth

  • Andrew

    “Even a $21.16 minimum wage wouldn’t represent progress. It would mean socially standing still, just with better technology and higher productivity levels.”

    How is this not progress….How is this socially standing still people have better lives due to better productivity and better technology. In a way I see what you are saying, and I agree the distribution of wealth is unfair but we have definately not been standing still, you also propose not solution other than to raise minimum wage, which will not happen, and fail to point out any other flaws…

  • Jake T

    Ok someone please help me out on this. The minimum wage was created in 1938 and was set at $ 0.25 per hour. Now if this was corrected for inflation it would come out to be $4.15 per hour. IF the argument that you are making is that the minimum wage should be PROPERLY adjusted for inflation, then why take minimum wage from 1968, why not base the “proper” adjustment based off the year it was originally created?

  • r

    The notion that tripling a salary will triple the customer’s food cost is just plain false. It would only be true if each employee only sold one item per hour and the food itself had no cost of its own. If you create 2 items per hour, then the impact of increasing wages goes down by 50%. If you have “Billions and Billions Served” then the customer’s food cost only goes up by 1-5%, which is mentioned in many articles and studies on this topic.

    People really need to understand the economics involved before they start talking out loud in a public forum.

  • Nope

    A minimum wage of of about $44,000 per year? That’s pretty close to the median household income of $52,100. That seems to be an absurdly high minimum wage to me.

    • mike3316

      Although that would allow households to get by on a single worker’s income – as it used to be in this country – rather than a household requiring two full-time incomes just to survive.

  • Mike Curtis

    And when there is no free land — no free alternative place to live and work, the free market drives wages of the least skilled and educated workers everywhere to a point below which they would get hungry and weak; Production would fall; the income of their employer would fall; and ultimately, the rental income from land would fall as well.

    The more highly skilled and educated workers have no free alternative place to work either, but they get higher pay because employers bid against each other for their labor.

    Having the right number of workers with each level of skill and knowledge increases production and their income.

    The higher pay creates the incentive for others to learn the skills and accumulate knowledge — which increases the supply of each kind of superior worker until it meets demand. And this sets the different rates of pay for each and every occupation

    When there is no free land, the return to productive capital: buildings, machines, inventories, falls until if it fell any more people would not have enough incentive to lend it out.

    So, all the greater benefits of technologies, skill and knowledge — save just enough as a reward for people to develop and learn them — are taken by the owners of land, for without the materials and a place to exist, labor and capital could produce nothing.

    Suppose, Posit’s Henry George, there were a hundred people on an island paradise — and one of them owned as his chattel slaves, the other 99.

    As long as the ownership of the island was fully assured to the one, would it make any difference to him or them if slavery were abolished? Would it not be the same relationship? For the only escape in either case would be to swim into the sea and drown.

    And would it be any different if one percent of the people on Spaceship Earth owned 100 percent of its habitable surface and natural resources?

    “On the land we are born, said George, from it we live, and to it we return again — children of the soil as truly as is the blade of grass or the flower of the field.

    Take away from man all that belongs to land, and he is but a disembodied spirit.”

    And so, wages tend to remain at that point below which productivity would fall — while landowners and other monopolists get all the benefits of material progress

  • LAWL

    15 year olds in canada make 10.45 in my province.

  • Russland

    There are too many smart-idiots walking around waving flags these days. Simple truth is the warm-fuzzy relations at the top between American business and Chinese Government is killing jobs in US. How can US compete with cheap slave labor manufacturing in China selling sub-standard goods in US market ? Try find something not made in China or even rare something made in USA. To think that US will be able to keep intellectual advantage even after moving all manufacturing abroad is delusional. Things are designed where they are made. China will one day design and build Apple, IBM, GM, Boeing…and on and on and on. US will keep importing more n more n more till its owned by China. Wake up people, minimum wage is just the tip of iceburg, its time to put fair-trade in place, stop illegal Chinese trade practice, currency devaluation and slave labor for competitive edge. Stop Chinese import, make things at home and preserve domestic market, penalize and heavily tax business that move jobs offshore, save small local businesses….save the middle class and we will become baby boomers of 21st century. Wake up America !

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      I’ ll tell you What America makes: AMERICANS. America should be kinder to its/our children.
      Blaming the Chinese instead of our so called “leaders” is fallacious. So are assumptions about the middle class. The middle class traditionally are Doctors, Teachers, Lawyers, and Shop owners. It has nothing to do with $$$$. These are the people that are supposed to “serve” all of us, rich or poor. A Blue collar worker may earn much more, but that is a lower class job, even in a high class individual. If the middle class is only serving the rich (related to REX = King), in fact they are traitors to the rest of America. The hippocratic oath says nothing such as “….unless the patient lacks insurance…….” Doctors are supposed to care for the ill, not the wealthy. Any Lawyer who holds the title “esquire”, is supposed to shield us from injustice, not bring about more.
      Judges, politicians, and police are suppossed to be public servants (serfs/slaves) and the very lowest of the low.
      Judges, Lawyers and Police do not make anything that gives life, and NO LAW will allow you one more moment of life, However, there is an excellent chance they might take your life, and call it JUSTIFIED, because they judged it so.

  • Russland

    Isn’t it all too obvious that corporate-america is killing jobs in America ? Opening gates to China has so far meant businesses can’t compete unless they move manufacturing off shore ? American businesses r run by cheap Chinese labors and one day it will be run by Chinese after they watch, learn, practice and sell all things innovated here and CEOs will be counting retirement dollars while america will become a third world country. In next 10 yrs China will have a man on the moon and strongest-best equipped army in the world….wait does it not sound familiar to flag wavers here ? Hold the thought and look at the tag on the flag u wave….you’ll see “MADE IN CHINA” there too.

  • Russland

    Still wanna talk about minimum wage people ?

  • Dkaner

    I think some people need to take a basic Economics class because I find too often that they believe what is being spouted out without any REAL facts to back up the information they are disseminating. I am tired of these broad stroked, one size fits all solutions. Here is a simple question: Does each state have the same standard of living and does each state have the same inflation rate? NO. Take for instance the FHA loan typically used by first time home buyers. Did you know that in Michigan that cap on the FHA loan is $297,500 (only in certain areas) yet in California, it can go as high as $729,750. Go take a look(http://www.fha.com/lending_limits_state?state=CALIFORNIA) In California, you have loan limits for FHA loans based on where you live in California. One size does not fit all. What I am trying to point out is that within the Federal system that have already tried to alter the FHA loans based on a medium income of that area thus trying to correct for the disparity for cost of living. What they should be doing for the wages is actually quite simple but politically unattainable. They simply need to adjust the minimum wage for each state so it keeps up with inflation instead of one broad stroke, one size fits all. So what if the cost of batteries at Walmart goes up 50 cents? So what if FAST FOOD goes up $1.00? The people who tend to eat this crap end up costing society more in health care so a decrease in FAST FOOD consumption in the U.S. is not a bad thing. Ultimately, the economies of scale will kick in and the prices will only go so high. Margins will get squeezed and eventually prices will fall so they can keep up the volume. It will decrease their bottom line but so what? Right now, The WALMART billionaires are not doing anything great for society. They are just socking away the money and doing what with it? NOTHING. If they made a billion less per year and that money went to the workers, what do you think happens to that money? IT GOES INTO THE ECONOMY. Mr. Ford called his plan back in the day a $5.00 work day. He said (and I paraphrasing) “Give your workers enough money to buy your products”. He understood that if his own workers could not afford to buy what they are making, it would be devastating to his company’s morale. What people do not get is that IF you raise the minimum wage beyond the level of needing public assistance, you would decrease public assistance dramatically. If you structure the minimum wage with an inflation adjuster at the end of each year, you would never need to increase the minimum wage because it would be automatic. What the big corporations do not understand is that by increasing the standard of living at the bottom and in the middle, they SPEND every dime into the economy. The millionaires and billionaires can only spend so much but never at the rate as the low and middleclass. However, the corporations would increase their profits if they give more money in wages because the low and middle class NEED to spend it all to have a standard of living and upper middle class and rich, do NEED to do anything. For them, it just accumulates. The small business owners always knew that the guys at the top make more but never so much that they could not keep their workers happy and working hard. Today’s corporate hierarchy feel that they are ENTITLED to make more than the other workers based on where they went to school and their family name. Since when does a CEO need or deserve to make 100x their lowest worker? The corporation is supposed to be a team oriented structure but how can you have a team when 75% of the team makes 100x less than the top 25%? Corporations are beholden to shareholders so if they do not hit certain numbers, the stock gets hit and then in come the bean counters to slash everything and the first thing they look at, layoffs of the workers at the bottom. Costs do come down but at the expense of production which then leads to less revenue and then the cycle starts all over again. What if corporations today decided to give the bottom 50% a 25% raise? All the extra money would immediately get pumped back into the economy. Sure, they would pay down debt and get their house in order but once they started making more money per month than it costs them to live, then the money has to go somewhere. If you take all the people who are barely making it a higher wage, what do you think the money is going to go? BACK INTO THE ECONOMY. They will go out and buy new clothes, cars, electronics, etc…..IT’S BASIC ECONOMICS. It is simply good old fashion American Greed that keeps our economy from really humming. You can’t keep just fighting the TAX fight over and over without looking at the WAGES. We keep fighting half the battle. I am in favor a FLAT TAX without any deductions and people who make below (some calculated number) NO TAX. We have a tax system that breeds corporate welfare. We have corporations that have money all over the globe sitting and waiting for the day they can bring it back to the U.S. Change the minimum wage to a state by state inflation adjusted program, reduce the tax burden on small business by creating an inflation adjusted tax based on each state’s cost of living so they could hire workers at the higher wage and not get penalized for doing so. Give tax breaks for business that hire more workers and penalize if they go and try massive layoffs. All massive layoffs do is push the burden of payments back on to every member of society via unemployment. Corporations could actually make less money during the recessionary times and they most certainly will make more money during the good times. More workers and higher wages will keep people spending and thus keep corporate profits up. It’s not rocket science. Corporations can’t keep having record profits and refuse to give wage increases. In the short run, it makes sense for the corporations to sock as much money away but in the long run, they hurt all of us because when the workers do not get wage increases, our economy slows down. Corporations have the power to get this economy humming along but its their greed that keeps them from doing so.

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      ECO NOMY (greek)= HOUSE HOLD Read it in the brackets in any ok dictionary

  • jamthanksman

    obviously if people were paid better most bad things would go away and humanity would sort things out but thats not the case and it wont be
    its nice though at least some people try to make things better for others

  • Dan Sapp

    honestly if wages went up that much it’s not going to translate to the consumer at that rate. What will most likely happen is companies will cut cost. Which is easiest to do by cutting jobs. So walmart says “do we really need greeters” and Mcdonald’s figures you will mostly like wait 2x as long for your burger rather than paying 3x as much. I do think minimum wage needs to be higher but looking toward 21 is not going to happen

  • Eric Anderson
  • ger320

    Automation/Labor-Saving devices have saved corporate profits but not worker’s labor. Have increased profits, but have not decreased worker’s hours. Have increased capitalist dollars but not decreased worker’s hours.

    Automation should be decreasing the work-week as well as increasing the profit margin; this would, in turn, decrease unemployment.

    As a result of automation, for every $1 increase in profits there should/must be $1 decrease in hours worked.

  • RB

    But you fail to mention that if the minimum wage was indeed $20~ dollars a gallon of milk would be $15…

  • 1% is deserving

    The rants on this board (written by the lower echelon) are quite amusing. I’d like to have anyone here find a CEO who “doesn’t get out of bed” or work equally as hard as his/her employees. As a strategy consultant to some of the leading corporations, I work frequently with the C-suite. These individuals make sacrifices that few would be willing to make. It is not uncommon for CEOs to travel 20+ weeks a year, work 80+ hour weeks, skip family and personal time for work, etc.

    As a strategy consultant, I have a household income that is nearly in the 1% at the age of 29. What have I sacrificed to make it here? I have an engineering degree from a top US college. My average week is 90+ hours, 6 days a week. I am on the road 50 weeks a year, and rarely have an opportunity to see friends and family (I see my family less than 2 days per week, and even on those days I am working). I have had to cancel multiple family vacations due to ‘client emergencies’. Work is a top priority in my life…not just a means to survive. I would like to see many minimum wage earners make these sacrifices to make it to the top (despite the fact many lack the education background and mental capacity to get there). And you may ask why I deserve my pay, regardless of my sacrifice? My latest engagement lasted for 4-months, and during that time my team was able to develop a strategy that will generate $28MM in additional profits per annum. This was in a four month period. Over the course of my relatively short career, I have helped companies generate over half a billion dollars through the implementation of my strategies. Can anyone here say the same?

    • 99% are serfs

      I got into Business so I could enslave the populace. Everyday I tell myself and employees how good they have it. Sometimes a slave, uh employee works particular hard, and I give them a few pennies more or tell them they are supervisors and do things I won’t.
      I never give them MY money, only my funny paper. And I know they will never live in MY neighborhood. I live in the richest suburb with walls and gates and the police that keep my customers and employees far away so I am able to sleep like a baby in my guilty, er…. gilded cage. Only in America!
      My neighbors are Judges and Lawyers and CEO’s of large corporations, who need to minimize the minimum wage so we can hire more workers to provide more profits.

  • Scotty

    The GOP is retarded at playing politics. They should propose a bill that raises the minimum wage to $25 and have a vote. Down in flames. Because why not make the minimum wage $50? I made the same salary 100+K back in 1993 that I do now, because Hillarycare, then Obamacare, has held medical wages down. Because of Obamascare, I’ve been out of work for over a year, and lost a years wages. In addition to having seen a true halving of my income. But that’s what the market forces have done. What’s great about America still, I have the option to go back to school, and change careers, but for me, it didn’t make sense. Don’t you realized, in nearly every other country in the world, you CANT start over and change your life? You’re stuck. And that’s what the Democratic party wants to do, put you on the teat. To undermine what’s great about America, how Vietnamese boat people can come, and 30 years later, their kids are lawyers and doctors and living in the best parts of town.

    So now, you’re going to give hamburger flippers, 1/3 of the income of someone with a Master’s degree? and more than some teachers even, absoulutely stupid. Go ahead hold a vote. It amazes me the stupidity and incompetence at the top of political leadership circles, to propose such a job killing feel good idea, which would ravage the job market at the worst time, kind of like it did in the 30’s!!!!! when Hoover actually did it.

  • Hank

    Yeah you’re right, we haven’t made progress. The minimum wage earners today can drive their own car and watch programs on a 55″ HD TV. Oh wait, I didn’t have a car in ’68, and only a 16″ B&W TV. Lucky me.

  • Burque

    I grew up, and still live, in a small city whose main economy is small business. While, sure, I’d love to make 20 bucks an hour, hundreds of small businesses would be unable to pay these wages, and would have to lay off the majority of their employees, leading to a worse work environment for the few people still employed, and leading to businesses that could not sustain themselves. They would close their doors, and the entire economy of my city crash, with unemployment rates of 30% or higher. This would cause the government to impose more taxes on those who were still hanging onto their jobs to be able to fund welfare programs by the unemployed masses, and suddenly that $20 per hour is no longer making my rent payments, but is instead paying for someone else’s.

  • nunyabiz

    You grew up in an america that stood for “progress”?!?
    I grew up in an america that stood for “individual Liberties”!

    I should be free to negotiate my wage with my employer. If I do not agree with the wage the employer is willing to pay then I do not have to take the position. If enough people where not willing to work for a certain wage for a certain job then the employer either has to raise the wage to compete for the workers or drop the position. (this works for ALL positions already that are higher than “min” wage).

    The fact that people are willing to work for minimum wage says a lot. Maybe as a second or third job I am willing part time to work for less than others so that I can get the job. What you people are saying is that the government has a right to tell me I can’t do this if I choose too.

    We all know what the real deal is. Many Union shops have their contracts tied to salaries in multiples of minimum wage. That is why there is a big push. Not for the people that actually make 1x minimum wage.

  • MarmaL

    This is an amazing article! As a business owner, I am disgusted why others can’t follow this. You easily can make fair profits with following inflation rates with pricing. The problem is and has been greed at the top, and media pushing the theory happiness and acceptance is found in possessions, PLUS they add physical perfection to it. Happiness is found only in relationships and people; giving and receiving love. The media lie may grow consumer and advertising growth, but it also is seriously damaging our youth through selfishness, divorce, crime, low self worth, depression, suicide, and murder.
    For anyone who thinks they can continue with this and pay people what they think they “deserve”, stop lying to yourself. You just want more. And if you think it’s going to work so well, take a trip to Africa. See how that works out.

  • Really-pissed Guy

    No no no no, I think you’re all missing the point. NURSES get paid $21.00 an hour, not burger flippers.

  • michael

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  • james

    who ever is reading this testimony today should please celebrate with me
    and my family because it all started like a joke to some people and others
    said it was impossible. my name is james i live in Chicago i am happily
    married with two kids and a lovely wife something terrible happen to my
    family along the line, i lost my job and my wife packed out of my house
    because i was unable to take care of her and my kids at that particular
    time. i manage all through five years, no wife to support me to take care
    of the children and there come a faithful day that i will never forget in
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    took me to a spell caster and and the name of the temple is called, DR
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    back to me after the wonderful work of Dr Okundonorgreatspell, my wife
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    things for granted and it will be take from you. i wish you all the best.

    Contact: [email protected] (or contact him through his mobile:+2348072099116

  • arsmith85

    I would like to point out one small detail that republicans and democrats both ignore because it screws up the argument on both sides. Jimmy Carter cut capital gains taxes across the board from upwards of 90% down to 28%.

  • Newer Small Business Owner

    Great observations! Who employs most of the people in the US? It is NOT large corporations, but rather small businesses. Small business owners DON’T make huge salaries, but are constantly investing in their business to ensure we are competitive and able to go another year.
    I pay my employees salaries based on experience and value to my business – my highest paid employee never went to college! Degrees are important to a point – experience, commitment and diligence should be rewarded in the marketplace, not by the govt!

  • Brandon Broze

    Corporate America doesn’t realize how good they REALLY have it, esp. profit-wise, in this country! So they keep b*tching and whining about “overregulation” and how they’re “forced to ship jobs overseas”

    whine, whine, whine…

    BIG OIL MAKES BILLIONS A YEAR AND GETS $4 BILLION IN ANNUAL LOOPHOLE SUBSIDIES! Companies like THAT could easily afford to pay workers well and still have loads left over; they just don’t WANT to because they’d rather waste time getting “capital” in the form of shares and pleasing their a-hole shareholders who seem to care more about THEIR INVESTMENTS than ACTUALLY treating the workers well and being good stewards of the econ. and environment.

    If shareholders are really as callous and coldhearted as this, f*ck em. We need to go back to a STAKEHOLDER econ. The move to shareholder-based, which largely started in the 80s, has been a DISASTER for us.

  • Brandon Broze

    Securities markets are just casinos for the rich, really.

    And to allow the average guy to play lottery in a “fancier”/”classier” way… It’s all one big Wall St. casino. F*ck it

    “We need 401ks and pensions invested in all these securities to help people afford to retire!”

    BULL
    CRAP

    If your company DID EXTRAORDINARILY WELL AND SAVED UP, it could EASILY afford pensions regardless, I’m sure! And the shift to 401k for more and more companies is disgusting… Yeah, great idea- make us REGULAR FOLKS whose wages are being cut by co. after co. PAY FOR OUR OWN RETIREMENT out of meager wages with sh*t returns

    So-called “financial experts” claim that an EIGHT PERCENT return is “good” or “the best” in the securities markets! And I’m sitting here thinking, “WHAT THE F#CK!”

    8%?? That’s EIGHT-HUNDREDTHS! .08

    EIGHT CENTS return for every ONE DOLLAR invested!

    How is that even remotely “good”?? If our securities markets are THAT PATHETIC, they deserve to die. Only if you invested LOADS of money in the first place- assuming you’re rich or semi-rich to begin with- can 8% REALLY be a “very large return.”

    But if you invested, say, $100… YOU ONLY GET 8 BACK! How is that “ok”?? You lost 92! It’s a ripoff, a scam for the ages.

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      Right on, “guest”!!! But that is just what you researched. What about the guy (broker- a very appropos title) who you buy the stock from? He gets his cut of the pie, and later on, the same or another broker gets his cut; and I bet they don’t get paid at a percentage of the $8 dollar profit, they take their cut from the initial $100 or $108 at profit. Also calculate the 3% annual loss in value of a dollar.
      It’d be easy to argue that there is NO profit in stocks, except for the salesman or initiator of the stock (even without my argument that it is just legal paper).
      WALL street was originally the garbage pit where pigs lived and ate. It still is. It still is.

      The Pilgrims used to put their criminals in stocks. Now we get them to buy their own stocks.
      Every Dollar says “In God we trust”. We trade away that trust with unfair, uneven practices.

  • Life is not fair

    Just raising minimum wage can not be the answer.
    You low wage workers are being “mistreated” by the entery level position wage. What about the people higher up the ladder. I don’t get CEO pay but I don’t get more than minimum wage. If I were to make $12 an hour now, after so many years of faithful service. Do I automatically get a bump in pay because minimum wage goes up? The answer is no. It is not the law, only have to pay minimum wage.
    R
    Everyone want to make more money. Everyone thinks they deserve more money. If you are an adult working at minimum wage, sorry to be blunt but you must just not have much of an ambition.

  • Danny De Jayeff

    The idea that the tripling of wages means that the cost of operations would need to triple is ludicrous. Wage reimbursement is not he only thing goods and services are priced for. If a company’s electric bill doubles, do they need to double their prices? No. A calculation is figured out and then they charge accordingly… aka electric charge = 5% of operating costs; doubling = 6.5% operating costs = does NOT equal a doubling of set prices.
    Morons.

  • Danny De Jayeff

    Same goes for CEO’s.. if they get paid double does the corporation need to double their prices / halve their earnings?
    B.S.

  • heavyink

    If minimum wage was $21 an hour, my pay would have to be raised to $58 an hour to maintain my standard of living.

  • Danny Ciliberto

    This will never happen because the companies are greedy and think they should make billions while sitting on their asses and want the ones who work hard to make as little as possible so they can make more. These companies do t care about the economy only themselves and the government is the same way it just cares about profit for itself at the hands of millions of unjustly paid Americans. But this is america land of the government.

  • Brenda Smith

    In 1949 those against raising the minimum wage used all the same arguments that are being used now, but president Harry Truman proved them all wrong, and came close to double the minimum wage from 40 cents to 75 cents. The link is at the end.

    Also with companies like McDonalds it just starts with the CEO. McDonalds is just an example but the same would be true of the others. There are also vice presidents, upper level managers and other assorted people with cushy jobs who could stand a bit of a pay trim. But let’s forget about them for a moment and look at how much share holders are paid. Trim some of the share holders profits. Put all this together and there is more than enough to raise the pay of their workers to $15 an hour.

    Click on the link to see how President Harry Truman almost doubled the minimum wage in 1949 to unleash 2 decades of prosperity. It can happen again, but when it does let’s keep wages going up with inflation. Let’s not allow business to raise their prices. We do have the power to stop them.

    http://money.msn.com/now/post–the-us-has-nearly-doubled-its-minimum-wage-before

  • aww yaaaa

    somebody explain to me that if there is a finite amount of money, which as far i can tell, is true, then wouldn’t a modest 2 dollar bump in the wage actually put more money towards the “bottom”, therefore, maybe just balancing a bit the wealth “gap” that i am sure no-one denies is there?? brining it back to 60’s-70’s levels means about 10 bucks an hour. big whoop…. there is no economist which can prove, nor does history prove the doom and gloom that some are sure would happen. keep welfare where its at, because people should make SIGNIFICANTLY more money if they work a job, than if they “play” the system and make a mere 4k less a year than that poor schlep busting his ass 2000 hours a year. 15$ an hour is a pipe dream – dream on.

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      Money is finite as the trees and cloth and ink it is made from. I need one of you bean counters to let me know when we will run out of trees, cloth and ink.
      It is finite, but that number is so big it may as well be infinite. Because at best you might provide an estimate. a very large guess.
      Money: (Latin) See MINT
      Mint: (Latin) moneta <surname of JUNO, whose temple in Rome money was coined.< pp. of MONERE meaning TO WARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Webster's New World Dictionary 1968

  • Chris Miller

    Your argument would be great if you didn’t lie about numbers. 21.16?

    BS. Try again.

    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.60&year1=1969&year2=2014

    • Joey Etymology

      I think it took 1000 hours for a min. wage worker to buy a 1968 COMPACT Mustang or Camaro with the straight six. So I find the $21.16 wage almost accurate…. except people pay more for more insurance than ever before, and have expenses of never before. Such as TVCABLESATINTERNETCELL Bills for example.

  • maybe

    Im relatively sure that most of you don’t understand the economy or a basic. Perhaps the minimum wage should be increased, to something more reasonable, say 15$ an hour. With that increase i think we should abolish welfare.

    • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

      Welfare: (NOUN) 1. The state of being or doing well; condition of health, happiness and prosperity; well being.

      (Webster’s New world dictionary, 1968)

      This is what you fight against. The state of being or doing well; condition of health, happiness and prosperity; well being.

      What you fight PRO or FOR is the state of being or doing evil; condition of disease, misery and poverty, and the right to take advantage of others, including YOU. You might be your own worst enemy.

  • maybe

    haha bad grammar

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  • Robert Severson

    Hell raise it to $21.16….. most small business owners will fire all their employee’s and do it themselves.

  • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

    The people of Michigan were well underway to place a ballot initiative to raise our minimum wage. The measure would have increased the state minimum wage to $10.10 per hour over three years (to 2017) AND index the wage to inflation.
    ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Minimum_Wage_Initiative_(2014)

    But in the capitol every argument was used to stall and divert “the will of the people”.
    On May 28, 2014, Raise Michigan and other supporters submitted 320,000 signatures to the Michigan Secretary of State.[3] However, the election board rejected the initiative because proponents had too many duplicates in their sample.
    The Board of State Canvassers ultimately CON CLUDED that the petition drive fell 3,908 valid signatures short of the required threshold.
    http://www.mlive.com/lansing news/index.ssf/2014/10/michigan_election_2014_minimum.html

    Concluded: (etymology) From Latin CONCLUDERE: CON (completely) + CLAUDERE (To shut) closeley related to SHOOT.
    CLAUD, CLAUDIUS: (LATIN) = LAME

    The Lawmakers then passed a bill to raise the minimum wage…..”later amended to raise the minimum wage to $9.25 by 2018.

    Governor snyder then took credit for raising the minimum wage, when in fact he had lowered our wages and kept the LAW away from the people of MICHIGAN.

    • Benjamin Franklin

      Only Misery…… Only Missouri has a lower minimum wage than Michigan.

  • JOEY ETYMOLOGY

    The poorest of poor are in Detroit. When I am paid the same as a Lawyer to walk down the street, we will talk about justice, and equality.

    If Detroit REALLY were bankrupt, There would be no money to pay ANY lawyer.

    We found a founding partner of the Jones Day law firm in Cleveland took chauffeured rides to Detroit on several occasions, billing taxpayers $300, $375, $450.

    An attorney working for retirees, charged $450 to walk one block to court, and then cut the amount in half.

    http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/governor-rick-snyder-mayor-mike-duggan-react-to-detroits-bankruptcy-bills

  • http://newdawnmedia.wordpress.com JR Hernandez

    “Salvatore Babones has spoken true words of wisdom with his eloquent and well researched piece on the status of the American minimum wage. However, me being a gabone, I felt it my duty and act of impulse to add my useless two-bits into this argument.The problem is that ignorant people (present company excluded) cannot seem to grasp that the Corporate Economy’s domestic value stands well over into the trillions of dollars. That this Corporate Economy is tax abated, has its own citizenship status as in legislation passed through ALEX/CU with the help of the KOCH Brothers and their Republican cohorts. That as such, Corporate America enjoys the vast majority of its profits -while- paying relatively little to no taxes. Thereby helping to maintain the epidemic and distorted conditions -inflicted upon the great majority- subsisting on bare bone wages; increasingly supplied by way of temporary agencies. And for your information the great majority of those profits are transferred -elsewhere- all over the world; since this Corporate Economy is a Global Franchise!” JRH-2014 NDMH

  • http://www.excitingads.com Navaid Syed

    What people do not understand is that value cannot be pushed up or pulled down just by pressing a button. Socialist countries tried, it didn’t work anywhere, ever. You can suggest that low wage workers can be paid higher by cutting the wages at higher levels. This is as unrealistic as it could be. It has never worked that way, ever. What actually happens is that companies cut jobs and hours, and make existing workers pick up the tab or simply replace them with machines. A job is always better than no job. Ask millions of unemployed workers. When we need a service we always try to find the cheapest possible provider. Companies work the same way. The real reason for current dire situation is cronyism. Government supports their campaigns financing big corporations. They get monopolies and competition is killed. With fewer companies competing for work force, employers have the option to treat workers anyway they want. If markets were truly free, most employers would be ready to do anything, to please you.

    • John

      A job isn’t always better than no job when you are working 60-80+ hours a week.

  • Sibyl Oracle

    No more will treacherous gold and silver be
    Nor earthly wealth, nor toilsome servitude,
    But one vast friendship and one mode of life
    Will be with glad people, and all things
    Will common be, and equal light of life.
    And wickedness from earth in the vast sea
    Shall sink away.

  • kumamato

    It’d be nice if people demanded a lower cost of living instead of demanding a higher wage which just raises the cost of everything else making it harder for the truly poor worldwide to make a living.

  • Yougottabe Dryhumpinme

    Blame hippies.

  • Rock

    You know i really admire these types of thinking. But who pays for the minimum wage increase? YOU AND ME. not the 1%, sorry… they will simply pass the buck down to us, or our business owners.. and the billionares will laugh their way to the bank with a bigger share of the middle classes’ wealth. YOU CANT BEAT THEM WITH LAW CHANGES!

    • Rock

      how about the 1:12 ratio? The swed’s may be on to something. Should a CEO make more in a month then you make in a year? That’s saying CEO’s pay should be capped at a ratio of 1:12. Or maybe you say 1:100 because you feel sowrry about those fat cats? Still bets 1:300 or 1:500 1:1776? (JC pennie$). Do this globally!

  • Flush Socialism

    Min Wage Workers DO NOT DESERVE a Living Wage, they are No-Skilled Losers.

  • NewWorldAtheist

    Forget for a moment all your arguments for and against and focus on a simple number: one billion. Most people have no idea what that number really represents. So, let’s provide a little context.

    Say you turn eighteen and inherit, after taxes, one billion dollars. Let’s also stipulate that you put that one billion dollars in a bank account that yields exactly the percentage increase/decrease of inflation; in other words, a hundred dollars today is protected and would have the same value twenty or fifty years from now.

    Now imagine that on the first of every month you withdrew one million dollars for spending money, pocket change, do-what-you-want-to money…whatever. Ok, ready for it?

    It would take 83.3 YEARS to spend ONE billion dollars at a rate of one million dollars/month (1,000 million divided by 12 = 83.3 years). You would run out of money on your 102nd birthday!

    Now, you want to defend that until you are blue in the face and in the same breath begrudge some poor s.o.b $20/hour as a guaranteed living wage (i.e. unemployment)?

  • Vijay S. Jodha

    In a free market (such as USA), minimum wage rate (like rate for any
    other labour including a brain surgeon or a rock star) is a function of
    demand and supply and has little to do with distribution. In terms of
    income, USA per capita earning (i.e. what an average American made) in
    1968 was $18,000 and is about $47,000 now – an increase of 261%. The
    average hourly wage (as quoted above) in the same period rose from $
    1.60 to $ 7.25 – an increase of 453%. Hourly wage growth has not just
    kept up but has been far ahead of average incomes.

  • Nancy Collins

    The problem is that Minimum Wage has gone from how *little* they can get away with legally paying a worker to how *much* they’re willing to pay a worker. There are people who have worked for companies for years and only have a extra $1.50 above min to show for it, and are expected to sacrifice their private lives for the sake of these crap-ass jobs. We’re becoming a nation of 21st Century vassals and serfs.

  • Joe Salome

    Some people are so full of shit here. The Oil industry keep control of everything.They entertain you with a lot of bull shit like terrorism for example and then they raise the Oil price. Why? very simple,every time they do that,you will pay more for everything.then they set the price a little it down,but the prices still stayed up right? well,then they come again and raise the Oil price again,then the rest of the industries or manufacturers rise the price of everything again,so it doesn’t matter if the president is a Democrat or a Republican. If you believe you are happy because you have a house and you pay a little HOA wait unti 15 or 20 years,when you believe that house is yours,you will still be paying another mortgage named HOA. Poor people don’t really spend money,they receive the rest of what couldn’t be stolen by the politicians. Do you get it yet? now what is the result: if your industry in general don’t pay better salaries,eventually most middle class people won’t have money to pay for anything. Did you get it yet? well they are miscalculating the future for themselves(the industry) they believe,people will do what ever to get money some how right? well,we are very close to start suffering the consequences of those stupid decisions ( to make Billions in profit no matter what) the crime will go really high and your kids will pay for it.Do you get it yet? now let’s go back. In a country where people can’t afford to buy anything,what kind of economy you will see?just like Cuba. no jobs with fair pay,no money to spend,the industry will have to stick their own product in side their own ass. Do you get it yet?

  • Joe Salome

    for those who can’t understand: They all employers must pay better salaries,if they want more customers to come to that store to shop. Because, CAPITALISM means no COMMUNISM,in clear way,if you work for a poor salary(it doesn’t matter what you do)you won’t have enough money to pay your rent and your food plus other basics services, so that is COMMUNISM,and that is the reason why so many Cubans leave Cuba,they all come here looking for money,better salaries and Mexicans too. Now,one more thing: If you don’t pay fair salaries to your employees,your Customer Service will be as poor as the salaries you pay and less customers will come to your business, so you will be making less profit thanks to your selfishness. Now,if you believe a Burger flipper is not an important employee,I guess you never got hungry and asked for service in any fast food place.for most hungry customers,those unskilled people are still important,because they serve you when you need them. Those cleaners too,imagine your business all full of toilet paper full of your own shit,would you clean those rest rooms?no,my friends,those under skilled are doing a job to keep our areas clean for us.We need to go back and read American History,because even the unskilled or under skilled people,use to make a decent salary because the employers were better people than today. Today they just want make profit and more profit no matter what. They are too greedy.

  • http://dirkbag.com Dirkbag Yarborough

    This is a LIE! The minimum wage is $4.13 adjusted for inflation.

  • brad

    the issue is not so much minimum wage yes money plays a role but having a place to live to start off with is what the aim is. any body that does not have private property and a house to live in no amount of money will help you. many wealthy and rich people today inherited their money from parents of grand parents from year back to Civil War times. slavery and indentured servant’s many many people wealthy back then. over all the lives of the poor have increased. homelessness is the real issue. how did the 1st generation of home ownership begin. how did the 1st generation of banks begin. how did the 1st generations of businesses begin. Starting from the Civil war 1865. until 1900 american’s lived in log cabins that they built on their own land back in those days no body purchased land or a log cabin house with a mortgage. now 1935 was when the american banks started to become popular. the government prints the paper money supply we all use. 1945 gold and silver coins usage came to an end for the most part. mean while the banks and the government do work together. some businesses ‘s work with government. so from 1945-1975 the banks started to hire construction companies to build houses also some log cabin owners just over time as family resources became more and more converted their wooden log house’s into brick houses . the home ownership process was 1st created and started off after the Civil war. private property rights came long before banks and paper money. the truths from 1945 was when some states with their banks were using paper money. overtime the businesses started to use the banks. some banks even to day hire construction companies to build houses. the 1st generation of banks began in 1935. so from 1935-1975 that was when paper money was being poured into american life plus the banks while working with the government hired workers and companies to build houses then the banks would then sell the houses to those wanting to buy. from 1975-2000 banks and paper money become mostly prevalent. also government taking unused property for it self this way no one can build on public property then claim it as their own. 1975 at that moment in time the banks had 25% of all properties being sold. the government had 25%, the business had 25% and ordinary people 25%. 1975-2000 by the year 2000 it is impossible to claim public property as your own. you cannot live in a log cabin because of zoning laws and other regulations. before 1950 any person could claim public property and build a log-wooden house and live their. the people that did not have building skills worked for people that did as laborer’s. the reason why poor people have it harder today 2015 is because the government has laws and regulations that prevent you from getting free public land and you cannot just build a log cabin for residential use. plus the banks have purchased at lot of property for it self. big business has purchased a lot of property from it self. but poor people to day their education level is far better than it was in past generations. 80% adults have a high school diploma before 1975 only 50% of adults had a high school diploma. before 1935 only 20% of adults had high school diploma. most things in america have evolved for the better. poor adults are poor because they have no property of their own that is it. so from 1975 until now 2015 most adults use paper money to pay bills. poor people have options in america still. they all need to travel/ migrate to one state of their own and claim used public land as their own. the issue of poverty and poor people is always they have not their own place to live to start with. the only way to find job is you need a place to live to work from. all working people need a place to conduct their work/job while at the same time having a residential place to live. the government should build apartments for the poor people then let them live their for free after that they can find their own work. homeless people living on the streets just need a free place to live for 4 years while working a full time job. before 1975 no one needed a full time job because people did their own farming and lived in a log cabin. 1950’s was when most houses had plumbing installed by 1985 most houses had electricity. as of 2015 90% of all residential places to live have pipes for water, and electricity. the issues is not really work then. its all about having a residential place to live to start off with. the government could do a property give away. the government makes deals with banks and businesses s any way. if the government wanted to end poverty it could. just give all poor adults their own piece of land after that build them a small house to live in. getting a full time job only makes since if you have a place to live to start with. homeless people cannot get a job. most poor people in america have a place to live. the issue is not about money. for thousands of years mankind had no paper money. for thousands of years their was no banks. people in those times lived in caves, log cabins. some people build better houses over time. if most of the worlds populations is poor they should ask them self’s why. if all of america’s poor people for example would travel to say Texas they could take over all the unused land. listen up all non-poor people what are we doing that they are not. all non-poor people have bank accounts. also most non-poor people do not do all by them self’s. house hold income in america normally means mom and dad working jobs and maybe their oldest adult/teen kid working a job while doing chores around the house. 52,000 a year that is 4200 a month again not that much. 1000 dollars per week for 52 weeks is 52,000 dollars. being good or being bad will not get you a house. non-property owners are poor. you cannot keep a job if you have no place to live. money and jobs are part 2 and 3.. remember folks the present is not the key to the past. the way things are to day are not the way it has always been. so from 1935-2015 the government has grown and expanded and has added more laws and regulations that help the banks and certain businesses out. the issue is not minimum wage the issue is not social security. the issue is private property rights for all americans

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